There is a time and a place for a 'can do' attitude and pre-positioning for a ANZAC day fly-past is neither. A bit more of the 'no can do' attitude that day might have saved them.

I beg to differ.

"Can do", and "No can do", are frames of mind that determine how every job is approached. The flypast was obviously a big deal, and they wanted it to happen. The "Can do" approach got them in the air in the middle of the night to try to make that important day a little more special.

I have no doubt that the weather risks were assessed and perceived as acceptable by the formation leader, all crews in the formation and the authorising officer.

Yes, your 20/20 hindsight provides you with wisdom that was not available that morning. I don't think that is a reason to change the attitude of an Air Force to one that says "No can do".

Tam

As you are perfectly entitled to do so.

The problem that I see with the 'can do' attitude is that once committed it doesn't leave much option for retreat. This formation does not appear to have given much thought to that or how to recover safely from IIMC.

I also somehow doubt that the families of the crew were very happy to read the following which could also be described as a 'can do' attitude.

In the US Army....IIMC recovery was part of our formation flight SOP's as far back as 1968....and I am sure every military aviation organization that flies formation has an SOP, that while not necessarily briefed prior to each formation flight, remains in the individual Aviator's Kitbag of Knowledge.

It does make one question why the positioning flight was not made the day before in the daylight...or in better weather...if the fly by was that important.

Sas and epiphany, I tend to agree, for a couple of reasons. I also agree that the can do attitude is what makes us New Zealanders, and as long as it doesn't kill us, we either get the job done or learn a great lesson.

It's one of the reasons Sir Ed Hillary conquered Everest!

Unfortunately when it does kill us then we can only hope that others learn from our mistakes. As my instructor said, learn from others mistakes, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself...

Having said that, April 25 doesn't sneak up on us any year, we know that we have dawn parades, we know that the military do fly pasts. I can also tell you that when we, being helicopter pilots, in New Zealand heard that a machine was missing in the fog, we all remembered the weather forecasts from the night before, or infact the few days before, and said of course someone has gone missing, the weather had been marginal for at least a couple of days and the forecast was crap. The military have a base in Wellington, why not go there, I guess that's the question that will always be asked. I hope that they use those options in the future.

An update from the New Zealand Herald;

Officer charged over Anzac Day chopper crash - National - NZ Herald News

Doesn't seem right!

I see it in PNG all the time, Kiwi pilots doing stuff that others wouldn't. Which I guess is part of the reason why Kiwi pilots are so much in favor with the PNG employers (i.e. not many Aussies left in PNG any more).

SuperF,

Best one yet! :ok:

Sad but true.

gulliBell, lets nor get too precious. I recall you happily flogging around at 300 feet in solid IMC. As was I. :E

True, but I only flog around at 300' in scud when I'm in an IFR helicopter and I have the option of climbing up into it :ugh: