Say what you like but in many years of helicopter flying and winching, I haven't seen a winching accident that wasn't caused by mistakes by either the pilot or the winchop - people make mistakes, it's a fact and unless you learn from those mistakes, those accidents will keep on happening.

Still no answer why the paramedic went down with the winchman - is that normal procedure for Aus SAR?

Crab

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

I had a close call whilst winching when a rogue wave hit the front of the aircraft with a chap on the wire. One engine stopped and the other (luckily) ran away up! We were at a sensible height for the ship and the job. Had both engines stopped would it have been a winching accident caused by pilot/crewman error? I think conditions can be a factor - so perhaps you are being a smidgin simplistic........:ok:

Baston - but it didn't stop and it wasn't a winching accident, it was an engine failure (nearly two) and you didn't damage the winchman because you were in the right position.

If the Aus guys had bent the winchman because of an engine failure I would still have asked questions about having the paramedic on the wire as well but not about the cause of the accident - they don't appear to have had such a malfunction.

If it had been a rogue wave breaking over a container vessel I feel sure that the report might have read somewhat differently.

Firstly I hope that the Paramedic and the rescue crewman recover from their injuries and wish them well.

I have had a look at the photo of the ship does anyone know where the winch took place? Bow, Stern or bridge wing. What was the ships MLA and relative wind over the deck, if they were conducting ops on the stern did they give any consideration to superstructure turbulence also why was the Hi-Line technique not employed surly these guys were trained in this procedure.

For those who are unaware of when a Hi-Line might be used.

The HI-LINE transfer is a procedure employed when normal winching would be hazardous, aircraft operating height is determined by obstructions and the sea conditions.

Conditions under which a Hi-line might be used are as follows:

} When the winching area is confined or obstructed such that there is a risk of the wireman striking or snagging obstructions.
} The vessel is too small or the winching area located such that the pilot cannot maintain visual contact while hovering.
} Ship movement is a hazard to the helicopter at the height for a normal winch transfer.
} Normal winching areas are unusable for any reason? weather conditions or damage.

Be interesting to see what the enquire brings out

Crab initially made a sensible comment, the competency of the whole crew rather than just the pilot are factors to be looked at in an investigation, but environmental factors should also be considered. I agree that going on to to the deck clean and being in a good position to receive the medic is ideal, but I am sure that an investigation will decide if the thought processes were sensible. We do not know the facts so do not hang the crew on guesswork. I do not deny that the initial reports looks like someone made an error, but who really believes anything written in the press?

A technical point on the winch, if it was not a piece of kit out of the ARC (like the SeaKing 3/3A), it would have a slip clutch. The Goodrich hoist on the EP412 that I have flown breaks out at 1200 - 1500 pounds; that suggests to me that the cable was cut by abrasion on an object rather than a dead weight.

Bottom line guys, wait for the report, we may all have some good lessons to learn from honest reporing rather than hidden facts shrouded by fear of a Prune Kangaroo Court.

On the other hand, never let the truth spoil a good story

Heads Down, Look out for the flack.

Just because you haven't seen it...
 

Hi Crab, compared to your experience in SAR my 2000hrs is probably not quite a dog-watch, but at about the 1300hr mark when conducting a rather benign winch to the bow of a wreck we used for training I noticed that I, as rescue crewman, was being air taxied away from the bow towards the beach, fortunately just 200m away.

The abrupt change to the planned sortie was due to the fact that a couple of strands had parted (for no apparent reason) and so the crewman aborted the winch and elected to sling me to the beach.

On return to base advice from engineering as to why the wire had failed was a blank; it was within tolerance and all documents were in order?

The reason for this post is to point out that just because something hasn’t been witnessed by an experienced individual does not mean that it will never occur. An example of this is the following infamous quote:

“When anyone asks how I can best describe my nearly forty years at sea, I merely say, uneventful… I never saw a wreck and never have been wrecked, nor was ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort… I cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern ship building has gone beyond that”

Captain E J Smith, shortly before he sailed as master of RMS Titanic

Wise words Helocrew, well said :ok:

Crab, you are a dead set clown. Give yourself an upper cut and shut your uninformed pie hole. :ugh:

Speculation at this stage is purely that. If you have some facts to contribute then fill your boots, otherwise, stop embarassing yourself.


GU.

Just because you haven't seen it...
 

[QUOTE]The abrupt change to the planned sortie was due to the fact that a couple of strands had parted (for no apparent reason) and so the crewman aborted the winch and elected to sling me to the beach.

On return to base advice from engineering as to why the wire had failed was a blank; it was within tolerance and all documents were in order?

Have you given any thought to the fact that some Clown may well have shock loaded that cable prior to your sortie and failed to report (Cables do not just separate for no apparent reason) http://www.pprune.org/Local%20Settin...p_image001.gif

BZ to the crewman who spotted ithttp://www.pprune.org/Local%20Settin...p_image002.gif

Goggle up - the facts:

The accident happened and it was clearly reported that the cable came into contact with the ship and subsequently parted,

The second crew recovered the injured winchman and paramedic from the same vessel in the same location,

The only thing left to surmise is what the second crew did differently to the first.