BO105 fatal accident back in 2006(?)
 

Hi,

i came across this video on youtube and wonder whether anybody of you does have any more information about it. I could not find anything yet. Rumours say it was flown by... well, i do not want to put a name here but in case it was true, he should have been one of the most qualified pilots on type. Very sad to see something like this happen even if it already happened years ago :(

Apologies in case this has already been discussed before.

Rgds,
Ready2Fly

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...13X29473&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...89FA220&rpt=fa

I think this is the one , pilot with over 8000 hrs . If i recall correctly they were filming for Wings of eagles and the pilot was called Ziggy.

This accident was in 1989 and i am sure, that the pilot wasnt Charly Zimmermann. As far as I remember, it was Siegfried Hoffmann, former Chief Testpilot of MBB.

skadi

Hi Ready2Fly,

seen that the video the first time :(

Known trap on Bo 105s, in steep right turns there might not be enough control to roll out again - so better be avoided close to the ground :(
Same problem might occur on BK 117s.

Greetings Flying Bull

Perhaps not enough cyclic but always plenty of left pedal....mash it hard and fully to the stops.

Left pedal, lower collective and aft cyclic, commensurate with height for the later two.

I read about the limitations concerning speed and bank angle in the FLM. What puzzles me most -beside the fact of the accident itself- is, that even pilots with that amount of knowledge -and i guess it is without a doubt to say that he was fully aware of the limitations- still get caught out that badly.

I do not think there are too many people around doing that kind if flying at about 75ft AGL ( := ) but it reminds you in a drastic way of how fast things can go pear-shaped.

In case it was Siegfried (Siggi) Hoffmann i saw him in another video (BO105 - The flying tiger) and was amazed about what he (heard it was him) did in low level flight - in a forest - with the rotordisc one or two feet above the ground (i guess the trick is not to use more than 30 degrees bank angle flying that low but i am not even rated on type).

Would not easing the turn....forward and left cyclic (if possible) be a better move than adding aft cyclic which works to increase the angle of bank due to the coupling.

Decreasing the collective (as much as possible) and adding full left pedal is the quickest and most effective method of recovering from this situation.

Making left turns when close to the ground prevents the onset of the dangerous coupling situation.

You will also be able to notice right at the end of the video, as the smoke starts to rise that the helicopter crashed downwind.
The other issues with regard to BO-105 maneuvers notwithstanding, the 'wingover' was from into wind to downwind and that probably contributed slightly.

Hi all,

if you watch the video closely - you'll see, that from the point, where the pilot might have recognized the problem to the crash is less than 2 seconds.
Even if you are quick recognizing, that this time the planed manover isn't working out - and even then, with the right plan at hand to react, at least a second is gone before inputs start to work.
Then the bird has to react - and the induced movement has to be stopped and counteracted.
I doubt that anybody could get out of the situation - with entering with the parameters the bird had.
(As far as i have read, the board remarked, that he tried to recover)
Even deliberately entering the situation with enough height to recover - will scare the s*** out of you.
The Bo105 is really fun to fly and can take quite a beating and is mostly forgiving pilot errors - but not all - and the line is sharp between still flying - and sudden stoppage....
I hope everybody playing around with Bo and BK see that video and keep it in mind when entering steep turns to the right - especial at low level.

Fly safe!

Greetings Flying Bull

What should he have done? Start higher? Bank less steep? Or just pull more collective in the turn?

Been there done that, and if you need to recover, I agree with Sas, but bear in mind that if you are being filmed and want the turn to look pretty you may not want to look "flat" coming out of the manouver and that combo could be the last one:{
I'm no expert but have scared myself ****less doing that and have taken the chicken ****/easy way out even though its not pretty... Bloody red face though:eek: Great pilot RIP.

Griffs me lad.....perhaps you picked up a few of my less than stellar habits from all them many years ago!;)

Just out of interest, what is the cause of the Steep right turn problem in the BO-105. Is it a hydraulic problem like seems to be prevalent in the squirrels.

You've just got me thinking with my 'try and stop people crashing' hat on. If this can happen to a man as obviously experienced as this then we are probably quite remiss in the things that get missed out of type rating training. [Don't read anything extra into this just a thought out loud].

Not a thread hijack, I'll start another on that soon.

Any 105 pilots care to clarify ?

Gary

http://www.rotaryaction.com/pages/firebirds.html

this was the film he was practicing for , note the aircraft was still in primer and had some of the mock up pods already attached. The 105 was going to be one of the "enemy" helicopters in this film.

Griff - all the company pilots went for a ride in the 105 with him when he was demonstrating it in Oz and scared the pants off all of us, low level down among the trees. Never so glad to get back on the ground in one piece. We all had our opinions as to his longevity and unfortunately were proved correct. No matter how good you are, when you sail close to the edge it doesn't take much to bring you unstuck. And yes, I've stubbed my toe more than a few times.

Brian,
I guess we are all great pilots until the sail rips....:(

VeeAny,
its no hydraulic problem. In slow and steep right turns the cyclic could reach its stops, therefore the limitations in the RFM. Long time ago, it caught me once, when turning downwind in a low recce over the intended landingspot. My speed and bankangle was just enough, but reaching the stops of the cyclic wasnt a comfortable feeling.....
Somewhere in my papers, i have a copy of the explantion of this problem, as far as i remember, the author was even the pilot of that sad accident. I will try to find it....

skadi

Hi all

So why is there a sustained right rolling moment with full left cyclic. I can appreciate that the turn will tighten due to the obvious aft cyclic being used to climb and hold the attitiude but don't understand why it refused to roll out with left cyclic. Is it related to rotor direction!

Regards Lplates

Am i correct in thinking the film was retitled 'Wings of the Apache'