cgwra
i have to ast the same question too what do you mean by how do you roll it up ect.

helicopterist

you obviousley know the answer too please let us all know

"Rolling it into a ball" is an aircrew slang term for a nasty crash, as in a description of the airframe afterwards..

Really, I like Gazelle 341 but it is very old.. I think so - for personal prop. - EC-120B Colibri - the best.

Very good, thanks for the clarification. Is there any basis to this? Do eurocopter aircraft have lesser crash survivability than their Bell counterparts? Or is this just another 'saying' made up by some random bell fanatic?

Either way i vote for the gazelle, aesthetically and in terms of fun-to-flyability. Second to its ugly cousin the 135, not as nice on the eye but in terms of performance, reliability, stability and relative simplicity its got good bank for your buck. Aint never flown a heli i didnt like though:yuk:

"Roll it up you're gonna die"
 

I tried to find some data to back this up but it seems that the manufacturers aren't too keen on advertising stuff like this...

So I did a *very* rough estimate using the NTSC database: 17% of Bell accidents had one or more fatalities, 25% of Eurocopter/Aerospatiale accidents had one or more fatalities. Figuring that mission could sway the results I did a type specific search for two helos with similar missions: AS350 vs 206 - that yielded 27% for AS350 and 21% for the 206.

I know it's a really crappy way to estimate fatal accidents but the trend is there.

BTW, yes I am bored & sitting at home wishing I was flying!

Jetrangers, 500s, 407s A119s and many other helicopters have support all over the place. Between the doors, in the center of the cabin, along the upper deck, in the windsheild etc. They are designed to crash, and many people have made it home to their families as a result of that principle.

Astars on the other hand...despite being a heavier helicopter, have only support in the floor. When you see them without the doors on you really get an appreciation to the lack of structural support. If you roll over in one your chances are less than stellar. Astar wrecks always seem to have the tail, the mast bent over with bits of blades and nothing where the front fuselage used to be. Its blows me away some of the accidents people have survived in astars.

Chances are if I have an accident it will be my fault in a perfect good helicopter. I sure hope it doesn't happen in an Astar though.

Stlll not sure about lack of crashworthiness in eurocopter aircraft. Seen pictures of a few eurocopter aircraft in a heap after a bad crash and was amazed to see people survived, the strathclyde 135 crash for example. And saw pictures of a recent 135 crash where everybody walked away from what looked like a nasty crash, and these are basically made of plastic!. I know a guy who totalled a gazelle who vouches for eurocopter crashworthiness. If there is solid reasoning behind your claim i would be interested to hear it, not from a bitching 'i like eurocopter vs i like bell' type schoolyard row, more from an earnest interest. Is there evidence of eurocopter aircraft lacking in crashworthiness capability?

I tend to agree with eurocopter beans here. I can not remember which city, but if you look at the As350 that crashed in America and eventually ended up on the ground after hitting quite a few building edges with the occupants alive I wonder. Yes, I do agree the structure does not look like much once the doors are off, but with MODERN technolegy(look at formula 1) you do not need a tank anymore. These composite fibres can absorb a lot more than a good old piece of stringer and alclad even though one can barely notice them and they are an 1/4(if not less) of the size of the good old post.

If the Astar scares you I guess you blankly refuse to join the flying experience of a EC130? Think you should give it a go sometime, you might be surprised.

The S92, great helicopter to fly and you can swing at least 2 cats in the cockpit!

I think I'd have a hard time convincing someone to let me try one out to see how it crashes :O Like the saying says, I'm sure they are a delight to fly.


I think you can find extreme cases where people have survived all kinds of crazy situations. There are thousands of accidents to draw from. I'm just saying I've noticed a trent based on all the accident photos I've seen over the years and the common fatalities. Astars always seem to fair worse than other types. I'm not the only one who thinks so I didnt make up the saying!

I also didnt say I would never fly one. In my company its kind of hard to progress without getting into an Astar and I think I'd give them the wrong idea if I said I wouldn't accept the endorsement. I have a family on the way though and I dont plan on spending my career in one. I'd like to fly a 119 or 407 eventually.

you have a family on the way so you dont want to fly an astar? Seriously?

Got to be a Gazelle, no question

I know that sounds dramatic. Anything can happen in 25 thousand hours though.

I can do my best to avoid an accident but I can't eliminate all risk. Not in this business and not in life. I can however, wear a helmet, and do a good DI every day. I can try to influence what aircraft I spend most of my time in and practice good airmanship. Even if it only makes me 5% more likely to survive an accident (and in my opinion its probably more) its worth it to me and it will stack up with all the other things that make me safer. I'm in this for the long haul and the life insurance company doesn't seem to think the odds are in my favor :rolleyes:

Favorite helicopters.
 

http://www.pprune.org/forums/rotorhe...ghlight=wessex

Quite a few votes on this thread!! :)

glass cockpit (glass only-- no instrument behind)

My very own likes are the B206 and the Gazelle, found the Gazelle so easy to fly so I feel that would be my numero uno!

Peter R-B:D