Air ambulance/ Police- winching/ onshore rescue
 

Does anyone know if UK emergency service helicopters are winch equipped? It seems that although the RAF are providing most of the UK SAR coverage, civilian helicopters worldwide are proving to be excellent rescue assets and are on par with some of the very best military set ups. Would it be a logical step for air ambulances/ Police to become winch capable to provide an onshore capability?

Here in Switzerland they do an outstanding job......

None of the Police do. The MET were thinking about it but the CAA won't allow it last I heard.

Part of the problem is possibly that in the UK, police & air ambulance a/c are civilian, and have to be operated to Cat A most of the time. That precludes hovering over cliffs etc carrying out winching. Also, the weight penalty from sticking a winch on the side of the aircraft means that you would reduce the endurance or crew in the primary role of policing or ambulancing, unless you buy a great big expensive helicopter, which police forces and charities cant afford.
That is why in the UK the SAR service is provided by the military and coastguard, where there is public funding which allows the right sort of aircraft to be used.

In many European countries, police aircraft are operated under paramilitary rules, and also have different funding arrangements, making operation of specialist rescue aircraft a more viable option.

Welcome winchman, we have been around this particular buoy before. If you explore the search facility you will find a number of threads on the subject.

For the rest of us, please refrain from the traditional willy-waving peeing contest!

Really? I thought that winching was the reason/excuse that the Met gave for getting the larger (and much more expensive and noisy) EC145s...? :confused:


Ooops. :O

One UK air ambulance has the hardware,a perceived need and the desire.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...olice+winching
Done to death

Absolutely not true for HEMS. Think you need to reread "Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 3.005(d) - HEMS", and "Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 2.005(h) - HHO".

As has been pointed out many times before; the helicopter is certificated to Category A and operated to Performance Classes 1, 2 or 3. In the case of the 'HEMS Operating Site' the standard is PC2 with Exposure and the regulations are being amended to say precisely that.

Jim

Psyclic

In reply to your statement, it seems the CAA have warmed to their idea and given approval for go ahead with inland winching. The first air ambulance to get it in the uk.:D

Suppose that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons !

Which air ambo are you on about then?

I might be wrong, but the only 902 in the uk with the fixed fitting above the RH cabin door is that new Yorkshire one as seen on TV.

Any 135's or 109's with fittings?

Winchman

In reply to your question it seems as though there will be emergency service aircraft equipped with a winch in the near future.
If you read a lot of the other threads on this forum around this topic there seems to be a lot of members that are 'against' the idea of civilians winching in the uk.

The CAA wouldn't of given approval without lots of thought and research into such a new role for civvy crew personnel.

Do you use single engine or twin engine for winching in switzerland ? :ok:

Put a winch on a Police 135 and you will be left with about 30 mins endurance.........you will also have to consider the training requirement for the guys in the back.

To winch someone up you would probably need to leave a Bobby behind, find somewhere to fit a rigid stretcher, etc etc. Leave it to the bigger cabs be they Civ or Mil

Ask your police observers, do they really want to be on the end of a wire in gale force winds getting a drunk off a yacht.

Typical case of "jack of all trades" syndrome methinks.

I did see an Air Ambulance helicopter at McAlpines a few months back which did have the necessary fittings on the fuselage for a winch, but I think that was only because of the previous customer specifying it before Bond took over the aircraft.

Maybe it is about time for air ambulances to progress like there European associates..... Given that it can take anything up to an hour+ for a Seaking to reach a patient, what could be more perfect for places with the terrain to suit winching (Scotland, Wales, Lakes, Yorkshire etc) than a quickly dispatched nimble machine with excellent medical care.... Look at the floods in Carlisle and Sheffield, definitely an area that’s worth some thought.

RS, great Idea but at what cost? Bear in mind that Air Ambulances are paid for by charity donations and an A/C that capable would be a lot more expensive than a 902 or 135.

Just a thought, but isn't the 135 and 902 are already being used worldwide for winching. I appreciate that they will not be capable of operating in a safe single engine flight configuration whilst winching but then again can you name one that is (Operationally and not in training). From what i've seen of air ambulances they are the latest generation of safe helicopters that are totally underutilized in their capability and could quite easily be a useful asset to the emergency services by being winch equipped and at the same time aiding the already overstretched UK SAR force over land.

Winching with an EC135, don't be silly!

That's Stupid!

Call that winching? Now this is winching. As performed by one of our very own PPRUNE member.:}:}

Nice Video.

I think I may have beaten RotorDompteur onto that particular platform though :) . Sadly I never got to do any winching onto the turbines :(

Hi to all at Uni-Fly

TeeS