New London Heliport
 

I have just set up a company to research the oppertunities for a new heliport in London. From my research so far it seems most locations are dropped due to local resident resistance.
We are working on a proposal to aquire a decommisioned LPD 4 Austin class amphibious transport dock ship. I have the investors in place and hope to locate the vessel in the Thames near the docklands as a heleport. It will also double as a cheep hotel and has port facilities below, to be used as a fast boat service and an area that can also be made available to police and medical services.
I would like to know what PPRuNe members views are on this before we move to the next stage.

Know how to spell Heliport before writing to anyone important??

1. Why would anyone able to afford to travel by helicopter to a world financial centre be in need of only a 'cheap' hotel ?

2. Do you not think London City, whose airspace is pretty maxed-out at peak times, would have a view on things ?

3. The police and medical already have quite sufficient facilities of their own on the river. They have been here for a couple of hundred years.

4. It is not just heliport mis-spelt. I count four words in a brief note. You will not be taken seriously.

5. If you were taken seriously, those of use who live in Docklands will see such a proposal off. As most waterfront areas in Docklands are now high-density residential this should be no surprise.

Well there are plenty of folks with money that are using helicopters to pick them up from Farnborough, Luton and other points to drop them in London and vice versa. Current options are pretty much limited to Battersea.

In my experience most of the passengers are heading for the West End and therefore far West of London Bridge. That said LCY has never and will never open for rotary wing traffic so there is some demand in the Docklands area. I'm sure some heli operators will be abale to give some input on this for you. London is a very poorly served City with regard helipads for general use.

You are correct about the noise lobby against helicopters.

I do seem to remember some sort of project like this before.

Great Stuff
 

this is great keep it comming - sorry for the dislexia - born with it

Well, Battersea get restricted when LCY is on runway 10 as it is (as traffic has to be at 2000ft downwind and on base leg....)

The ATC and City Airport issues will be the hardest thing that I can see. Also, I am sure to do enough movements to make money will mean Air Traffic Controllers needed.

London definitely needs a heliport that is better placed etc. Around the London Eye would be best placed geographically.... but locals and noise and Red Ken are massive obstacles....

Good luck

Deep Pockets?
 

SimnLloyd - good luck to you. You will need it; along with incredibly deep pockets plus a huge amount of patience and perseverance .:ugh:
There have been several attempts by all sorts of people and organisations before - including one I remember in the late 80's which the City of London itself was closely involved along with all the London heli operators, Norman Foster Associates, MPs etc etc. Without doubt the big issues are noise/environment, secondly ATC and SVFR/IFR Ops and thirdly, most people eventually decided it just wasn't commercially viable because of horrendous restrictions imposed on any operation. Additionally, helicopter use is so cyclical (pun?) and susceptible to the health of the economy - so now isn't the best time for your launch. It probably is a good time to be planning for a 2012 launch??
I have always thought the River Thames could be used a lot more to solve London's transport gridlock. So my advice would be to concentrate on the fast boat services...... or maybe float planes???

I trust you have read up on "Thames Heliport v. London Borough of Tower Hamlets (1995)".

Helicopters noise is a real pain for those of us living near the Thames. It is far more intrusive than noise from fixed wing aircraft.

Expect plenty of opposition.

Just for reference... previous floating London heliports were

• City Heliport - This was on the North Bank right by where the Millennium (aka bendy) pedestrian bridge is, and had a licence until the City of London School was built. One big barge with three pads with accommodation below. Cannot remember who ran it though - sure someone here will remember..
• Star Aviation Heliport - On the South Bank not far west of Southwark Bridge. operated by Star Aviation, boss of which was Tommy Collins - (last known flying for Wales Air Ambulance?). This was two smaller barges with two pads each and AFAIK only used by Star, who at that time had three 206s. Office accommodation below

Being ignorant what an LPD-4 was, I found these...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-Blackhawk.JPG

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-3149V-002.jpg

http://navysite.de/ships/lpd6_2.jpg

And Wikipedia tells me (see here) it was a US military ship, with 12 built - one now in Japan, five on US east coast and six on US west coast.

My suggestions thus...

• Given the size of it, I suggest you find somewhere to moor it - there can't be too many permanent places for a 171m ship. Probably worth talking to the PLA in this regard
• As others have said, LCY have got to be high on the list of contacts. Their plans are to expand more and more on the fixed wing side. They HAVE taken helicopter movements in the past - I think the police and/or London ambulance a couple of times, plus Dennis Kenyon has done his show there twice for the airport open days! (Press release for 2007 event here) But that's about it.
• Think of other uses for your ship eg. floating museum - so long as you can segregate the masses (museum visitors) from the heliport users. This may help defray your likely enormous costs.

Usual adage rings true once more. Question "How do you make a small fortune in the helicopter industry?" Answer "Start off with a big fortune"

Concur with ELondonPax, although I don't live in London, having stayed with friends on a regular basis, who live near various heliports, the noise pollution is unbelievably intrusive.
Unless you've experienced 3 or 4 days of it, you probably wouldn't appreciate that its far worse than the approaches and departures to and from City Airport, or to a lesser extent, Heathrow.

I'm usually the first to baulk against NIMBYs and I also fully appreciate the business need for the flexibility of helicopter travel to and from the Capital, but in this instance I would be fully against any expansion of current facilities or the implimentation of new heliports.

Part of the problem is abuse of the existing helicopter routes across London. For example the RAF recently sent a formation of two Chinooks down H4 (the route along the Thames) at 23.00 hours, whose thundering pulse nicely woke everybody along the route up. Now we at PPRuNe know different, but to the general public a helicopter is a helicopter.

ELondonPax (and Niknak's friend - PaddiWak, perhaps?) - were you living there before helicopters started using the route along the Thames c1955? If not, don't you think it's a bit rich to critise something that was there before you and the noise was a known issue?

Moderator - this thread may be better served by moving it to the Rotorheads forum? Lots of relevant people there

A couple of months or so ago I was cruising round Heathrow at 1 or 2 in the morning and I heard a couple of Pumas of the RAF or ARMY (I don't know much about the armed forces so please accept my apologies) on the frequency going round some of the hospitals in London doing training landings. I have to say i felt a bit guilty on behalf of the pumas. I understand the need for doing training landing sat the hospitals but does it have to be at 0130hrs in the morning?

I am aware we have to be neighbourly and I do try my very best, but then again this is London the financial center of the European universe the creme dela creme it should be able to cope with some helicopters.

Open up London City and Northolt plus bolt a pad to the top of canary wharf. Well that is what I think anyway.

Glad to see so much support for the military flying effort here:ugh:

Are you not watching TV to see what these guys are training to go out and do?

Oh dear, some people got woken up by a helicopter once, how bloo8y tragic. They don't seem to mind the incessant traffic noise or constant wail of sirens but a helicopter flying overhead is an instant red card and letters to the mayor!

People have no control over the car traffic and the sirens, but they can voice their opinions on helicopter noise and they are being listened to.

Glad to see those from the industry shooting themselves in the foot regarding support for the proposal being discussed here, with attitudes like this one. Keep them coming !

Yes we do watch TV, and no, we don't see the slightest relevance of how sending formations of transport helicopters transiting over your own major cities in the middle of the night contributes to any training.

good questions deserve good replys
 

1. Why would anyone able to afford to travel by helicopter to a world financial centre be in need of only a 'cheap' hotel ?

Business men today are not allowed to sped money onnexpences like before. When I say cheap hotel - It will still be of a business class standard and I bet it will be full all the time like all the ther budget hotels are now in the city.

2. Do you not think London City, whose airspace is pretty maxed-out at peak times, would have a view on things ?

Helicopter traffic does not need to affect fixed wing. We are not busy conpared with NY

3. The police and medical already have quite sufficient facilities of their own on the river. They have been here for a couple of hundred years.
At wapping their facities look quite dated and open air. Zzzzzzthey have no cover duing winter


5. If you were taken seriously, those of use who live in Docklands will see such a proposal off. As most waterfront areas in Docklands are now high-density residential this should be no surprise.

Have you been near city airport. they are still building next to an airport and people ar still buying. There are plenty of places along the thames to place this vessel
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/...ser_online.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif

WHBM - I am not in the industry, I am in the military. The crews have to be trained in all sorts of disciplines, not just the ones you (who clearly has little idea of what is involved) approve of or see the relevance of.

The support for the military effort in Iraq and Afghanistan by many sections of the British public is deplorable - the poor buggers don't want to be there but they are putting their lives on the line for their country - are you prepared to do that? If not then accept a negligible noise discomfort for very short periods and let those who are not wrapped up in their comfortable little worlds get on with their jobs.

I can only suggest that the lack of support described in the second paragraph is unfortunately more than a little brought about by the arrogance and do-what-we-like attitude evidenced in the first paragraph.

I'll see you in Whitehall on Nov 11th.

Without doubt London is sadly lacking in reasonably priced, convenient helicopter access both centrally and peripherally.
Battersea is out for most of us small operators since the price hike and there is no London HLS within walking distance of public transport links.
This is shameful for such a great capital and a real opportunity exists here to improve the situation and hopefully start a financially viable business.

IMHO there are 2 options.

1.The plan you outlined above - central would be nice for pilots and pax but as you can see above even those involved in aviation don't want it around them all the time.(They can often be the most vociferous complainers!)

2.Find a site directly adjacent (walking distance) to a good fast (less than 30mins) rail/tube link into central London. This does not exist at present - taxis between landing site and train should not be necessary and spoil the flow of the trip in and out as well as adding cost. This could even be a grass field with a windsock (no need to buy a ship and pay through the nose for maintenance / mooring) plus you end up with an appreciating investment rather than a deprecaiting hulk in the Thames with a huge noise lobby against you.
You find the site and I'll go halves with you!

SB