Crop Spraying
 

Any pilots who used to crop spray or still do with helicopters?
Just would like to know what its like?
Obviously none in the UK (was it banned?) but for young pilots sounds good work, building hours? I know the hours are long but its sound worth the effort. Although language problems perhaps in EU countries?

Anyone recommend or not Helicopter Crop spraying?

MADY

Dusting Banned in UK
 

I guess I must be out of touch with UK flying but at one time (74) you could crop dust in the UK. I started my career on a UK validation and dusting for Sloan Helicopters out of Sywell (Peter Nutting days for you realllllly old farts), at that time Bond had two H12E and also dusted. Well time marches on and so does change.
You might try reviewing the HAI helicopter operators directory, this may take a little time but probibly get some leads. Evergreen had a WHO contract in Africa and that continent is loaded with dusting.
Its a lot of fun,scare the crap out of you a few times but if you live through that phase of your career then go for it.
Best of luck to you and fly safe.

Thanks for the reply - Ill have a look at those leads.

Yeah last I heard was during the 70s, so I assume it was all banned in the UK around then.

I wounder if these days its cheaper to use fixed wing for c/d but then that requires a landing strip or decent road?

Anyone else done this line of work?

MADY

At first crop dusting is definitively not a starter job!
Secondly crop dusting needs in the most countries a special rating or training, which will usually cost more than a FI rating.

AG is one of the most difficult helicopter jobs and the accident rates are very high. Flying very low and slow with large booms on both sides is very special. It's a job with a long day. Every unseen obstacle could be your last...

Spraying chemical is in our new world now unliked, the market goes down.

Spraying chemicals is not a healthy job. May be today the common chemicals are not the same poisons like some years ago, but some good guys i was knowing some years ago died on cancer in young years. And be sure in some parts of our world they have up to today the same poisons.

Howden Helicopters were still spraying in the UK as late as 1993 with Bell 47's.

Manfriday helicopters were bracken spraying with R22's around the same time maybe later.

Bond sold their Hillers in 1986 to a company in Lincolnshire who were also spaying with a 206. Around that time Agricopters sold their Hillers to a couple of Greek companies. G & SG Neal still had a pair of Hillers spraying around this time as did Tom Clark (Helicopters for Industry).

Not sure when any of them finally finished. The back end of the 80's was the death knell of spraying in the uk.

As to the effects of chemicals, we were spraying Quela(spelling) birds in Tanzania in the mid eighties with a 206.

We wondered how we treated the pilot in the event of an accident resulting in him being covered in the stuff.

The answer came back Atropine!!!!!!!! Standard military injection for nerve gas poisoning.

Mind you when you saw the effects of the stuff on the birds it was easy to believe, not nice.

Somehow the passing of spraying, certainly in Europe is probably not to be mourned however there were some good times in the process.

The increacing costs of keeping up with the legislation and the increaced use of low tyre pressure ground vehicles made it largely uneconomic in the end.

... most spraying action in Europe could be seen in the wine business. Mostly all 14 days the vines are sprayed with fungicides, pesticides and insecticides. Enjoy your meal!

Thanks tecpilot, whilst a little brutal that was the sort of answer I was after.

I already work on an arable farm and so the spraying side of things is something I am used to.
Although Im quite young for the industy I did think it could be a way into gaining hours, but it sound like you disagree.
I heard from a couple of guys that Spain desperatly needs pilots for this sort of work...

R22s for Spraying - I always thought they would be good but never saw one kitted up. R44s yes but never saw an R22. Photo anyone?


Any more comments welcome...

I saw an R22 kitted and working on a spraying operation at Oban last year (August 2006). It was operated by a southern UK company (cannot remember which) and flown by a pilot with an NZ accent (don't know who, but he waved).

So apart from knowing nothing all I can saw is that I saw something (the tank was underneath and booms either side). Must have been light on fuwl with 2 on board. It was going bracken spraying.

h-r;) (dumb or dumber)

Found one:


http://i11.tinypic.com/631nf36.jpg

Judgeing by the size of the tank - the chemical must be very specialized or applied thinly!

UK Ag Work
 

My old firm of Spooner Aviation, (Shoreham Airport, 1974 to 1980) ran a spraying business using the Enstrom 28C. (in the UK we didn't call it 'dusting')
We had several good contracts, Boots, ICI (Plant Protection) alongside dozns of 500 acre plus farmers. The turbo charged 28C was certificated to carry 600lbs (max auw being 2,600lbs) using the Agrinautics 36 foot boom spray gear for both the wet and dry application. For the dry spreading, we fitted a Vicon Hopper, the same container the farmer's used behind their tractors.
I recall spending more than a few hours calibrating the dispersal gear to produce the proper application rates. Several separate passes over a couple of dozen glass collection tubes which were subsequently measured and the spray nozzles or spreading impellors adjusted as necessary.
Our Ops Manager was a Paul Manning and none other than Brian Izzard was our Chief Ag pilot. Brian ... to those who knew him, was one of the Caledonian link pilots flying the S61 LHR - LGW route (G-LINK I seem to remember) until transport minister, Nicholas Ridley got the scheduled service cancelled. Brian Izzard was also a real live Bishop !
Spoonair Ag Services employed two other specialist ag pilots (Chris Cook and Derek Alexander both from NZ) and I found myself doing the simpler jobs, such as the Maneb on Potatoes and of course the treatment of Rinkosporium & Septoria. At one time we used some pretty fierce stuff to kill off Bracken, similar to the defoliant in Vietnam.
I recall managing around 100 acres an hour on insecticide work, which at that time we charged out at £4 an acre. So we werew doing good business)
The operation was flown under the CAA's Aerial Application permission ... (not an AOC) I still have the publicity video we made at the time showing how wonderful we were at saving the farmer's tons of money.
But mostly true as I recall the occasion when a Sussex farmer (Brian Harris) turned up with a brand new Rally 325, and was pleased to tell me that having saved his crop from the disastrous plague of Aphids that happened in 1976 ... the profit from his 1000 acres funded the purchase of the aircraft. He even had a Ladybird painted on the nose.
We mostly used human markers and it was important that we didn't spray them at the end of each spray run ! I can't remember why we didn't use the automatic flagmen.
I suppose it all came to an end with the increasing environmental awareness and associated costs, as one of the CAA requirements was to personally notify every adjacent property by a visit. As we often commenced spraying at 05.00 hrs, you can imagine the problem.
Anyway, I enjoyed the work, but as has been said, we did lose two aircraft ... One attempting to lift with the reloading hose still attached. The second due to a 'flashover' from a 33kv power which was being flown under. But thankfully no casualties, and we were spraying the next day. .
I know most farmer's preferred the helicopter for chemical application, since a good ag pilot gets the skids close enough to the crop to give it a good shaking which allows the chemical to reach the underside of the leaf. (Where the Aphids would settle) We used to double spray the headlands too just to keep the farmer happy !

Later in the work, we commenced the ULV and CDA system, (Ultra Low Volume & Controlled Droplet Application) where application rates of one pint per acre was the norm ... good for the R22 of course.

Typical spraying or spreading speed was 40 to 50 knots at around six feet so you didn't need to lose an engine ! At the end of each run, the heli is torque turned rapidly through 180 degrees to commence the return spraying run in the opposite direction. The trick here was to keep a good eye on the booms to keep them clear of the surface ... at the same time switching on and off the spray pump so you didn't do a spray job on the adjacent properties. A max wind spped was usually 5 to 6 knots to minimise spray drift.
So all in all, it was interesting and rewarding work and of course much of it was due to a successful team working well together. I suppose it was those steep torque turns that got me into the display flying.
If any prpruners have a specific interest in the subject I'll be happy to chat further.

Dennis Kenyon.

UK Ag Work
 

My old firm of Spooner Aviation, (Shoreham Airport, 1974 to 1980) ran a spraying business using the Enstrom 28C. (in the UK we didn't call it 'dusting')

We had several good contracts, Boots, ICI (Plant Protection) alongside dozns of 500 acre plus farmers. The turbo charged 28C was certificated to carry 600lbs (max auw being 2,600lbs) using the Agrinautics 36 foot boom spray gear for both the wet and dry application. For the dry spreading, we fitted a Vicon Hopper, the same container the farmer's used behind their tractors.

I recall spending more than a few hours calibrating the dispersal gear to produce the proper application rates. Several separate passes over a couple of dozen glass collection tubes which were subsequently measured and the spray nozzles or spreading impellors adjusted as necessary.

Our Ops Manager was a Paul Manning and none other than Brian Izzard was our Chief Ag pilot. Brian ... to those who knew him, was one of the Caledonian link pilots flying the S61 LHR - LGW route (G-LINK I seem to remember) until transport minister, Nicholas Ridley got the scheduled service cancelled. Brian Izzard was also a real live Bishop !

Spoonair Ag Services employed two other specialist ag pilots (Chris Cook and Derek Alexander both from NZ) and I found myself doing the simpler jobs, such as the Maneb on Potatoes and of course the treatment of Rinkosporium & Septoria. At one time we used some pretty fierce stuff to kill off Bracken, similar to the defoliant in Vietnam.

I recall managing around 100 acres an hour on insecticide work, which at that time we charged out at £4 an acre. So we werew doing good business)

The operation was flown under the CAA's Aerial Application permission ... (not an AOC) I still have the publicity video we made at the time showing how wonderful we were at saving the farmer's tons of money.

But mostly true as I recall the occasion when a Sussex farmer (Brian Harris) turned up with a brand new Rally 325, and was pleased to tell me that having saved his crop from the disastrous plague of Aphids that happened in 1976 ... the profit from his 1000 acres funded the purchase of the aircraft. He even had a Ladybird painted on the nose.

We mostly used human markers and it was important that we didn't spray them at the end of each spray run ! I can't remember why we didn't use the automatic flagmen.

I suppose it all came to an end with the increasing environmental awareness and associated costs, as one of the CAA requirements was to personally notify every adjacent property by a visit. As we often commenced spraying at 05.00 hrs, you can imagine the problem.

Anyway, I enjoyed the work, but as has been said, we did lose two aircraft ... One attempting to lift with the reloading hose still attached. The second due to a 'flashover' from a 33kv power which was being flown under. But thankfully no casualties, and we were spraying the next day. .

I know most farmer's preferred the helicopter for chemical application, since a good ag pilot gets the skids close enough to the crop to give it a good shaking which allows the chemical to reach the underside of the leaf. (Where the Aphids would settle) We used to double spray the headlands too just to keep the farmer happy !

Typical spraying or spreading speed was 40 to 50 knots at around six feet so you didn't need to lose an engine ! At the end of each run, the heli is torque turned rapidly through 180 degrees to commence the return spraying run in the opposite direction. The trick here was to keep a good eye on the booms to keep them clear of the surface ... at the same time switching on and off the spray pump so you didn't do a spray job on the adjacent properties. A max wind spped was usually 5 to 6 knots to minimise spray drift.

So all in all, it was interesting and rewarding work and of course much of it was due to a successful team working well together. I suppose it was those steep torque turns that got me into the display flying.

If any prpruners have a specific interest in the subject I'll be happy to chat further.

Dennis Kenyon.

I used to spray in Oz, and I agree that it is not job for the low timer. You used to need at least 700 hours (I think) just to apply, then there was about 9 exams to pass before you could even start the course. Then there was the training and the flight test. Admittedly this was with a CASA guy who probably had never been anywhere near a real spray operation in his life, but it still cost money! After that you could go and do it, but real life is much more complicated and it's like ten minutes of happiness and ten hours of smelly, dirty, uncomfortable, DANGEROUS sh1t! Another thing is that you can never get rid of the chemical smells - I used to have a shed where I kept all my Ag clothes. I would change in there to go on a job and shower and change back before going into my house. Even then my girlfiend sat on the other side of the room!
If you want to try it can be great fun, but mostly for the people. The job is the pits.
Zeb

I don't know if he's still flying, but John Howells used to be one of the best helicopter Ag pilots in Oz. He used to be in Gatton, QLD so maybe a websearch, or even the yellow pages might help.
John McDermott was another ace, also in QLD but he sprayed in Scotland for a few years as well. Last I heard he hurt his back in a crash a few years ago but I don't know what happened after that.
Zeb

I did my crop spraying training in Gettysburg with Ag Rotors under the guidance of a great old timer with around 20,000 hrs of piston under his belt .Hank Whitfield....mainly the 47 and the Hiller. After that my first job was spraying cotton in Egypt which was interesting to say the least ...the inside of a Bell 47 gets to a temp where the seat belts burn you if they touch your skin ...so you have the doors off and if you do a particularly vigourous torque turn you would be coming back into your own spray...after using one particular chemical the other pilots ( all Greek cypriot ex army )and i all had yellow finger nails and eyes :eek: We also lost 3 aircraft in 4 months ....later i ran a company near Ripon called GSM Helicopters and we ( using 5 Bell 47,s) competed with an outfit near Thirsk called Farm Supplies using the Hughes 300. Those were great fun times flying with my old mate and chief pilot Dick Meston , who a lot of you will have known, with him fighting a losing battle trying to keep me out of trouble := I am afraid you are too late for the crop dusting era has gone and the little bit of bracken spraying left will be banned by the tree huggers:ugh: There were never many English pilots as the very best were usually the kiwis who followed the season around the world...now watching some of them spray a field was poetry :ok:

It's not exactly banned in UK but very awkward to do - there is some bracken spraying every year in Wales done by PABG (yes, he's still at it!)

I did some cut blocks in Canada one season (with a 355!), and they've got to be the must unsociable hours in aviation! I agree - not a job for a low timer!

phil

Spraying with a helicopter or a fixed wing is a great way to make a living. Here, in Louisiana, it is accepted as a good way to help farmers feed the world. It is safe if done safely and the exposure to the chemicals are negligible. Use common sense. I tell my people that if they get it on them, wash it off.
http://www.webshots.com/user/cropdustern

Spraying is a way of life. If you are getting in it to build hours you are wasting time. It's just the opposite. You've got to build hours to get a job. The insurance companys want 1000 hours total time and 500 hours ag work. Kind of tuff finding that first job.
Ag flying requires you to get up early and work late. Fouteen to Eighteen hour days are the norm and forget taking off early to go out with the gang. When there is work to be done it's expected that you get the job done. It's really a farming job in an aircraft. More in common with a tractor than an aircraft. The pay is normally a lot better than most aviation jobs. Kind of like logging and other specialized work. A lot of pilots that try ag are just not cut out for it. I can usually tell when I first see a guy spraying whether he's got it or not. Unfortunately, I've never been able to tell before he begins whether it's his thing.
I've been doing ag work for 24 years and I'm still learning. Every day is a little differnt than the last. Flying in the morning is usually great. The middle of the day can be hell. We don't go by the regs on gross weight. We learn what weight we can work with and there is not a lot of excess power. Take offs from a truck or trailer are usually what we call rolling off. There simply isn't enough to come off from a hover without over torquing. A typical load takes 5-6 minutes to put out and then back to the truck for another. Loading takes 30-45 seconds and it's time to go. Carry enough fuel for 5 or 6loads so you can carry more product. Sorry to hear you guys in the UK can no longer spray. Each year it gets a little harder here in the US. Guess it'll take a food shortage before the extremist wake up. You can bet if food gets short in Europe and folks start going hungry because some insect is destroying all the crops, the public is going to want know the name of the **** that outlawed spraying.
barryb

Thanks for the great replies chaps!
Especially DennisK, - 100 acres an hour! Thats what any farmer would love to hear!


I already live and work on a 2000acre arable farm so the Ag side of the flying would not be a problem. The long hours and smell is something of a way of life!
Apart from "crop duster"s post it sound like its a dyeing sport though!

Being young the Flying for me is for the near future but it does sound like its not for the inexperianced.
I didn't realise it also requires all the exams, flying training and tests! Might as well be and FI or IFR course!

but judgeing by the responses it is good work if you can get it! Sounds like you have all had some fun doing it!
Only problem is the word "had", seems like it is becoming less and less...

MADY

Not sure if Mike Horrell is still at it but he was spraying heather with R22's in Scotland until a few years ago. MFH Helicopters I think. He was my FI course instructor and fantastic in the R22.

You can often tell an ag pilot by the way they drag their skids for 50 yrds before taking off :uhoh: they are so used to being overfilled with chemicals ( which happened all the time with the ragheads) and being over weight and 110 degrees OAT means at max power you barely get light on the skids :eek: My old girl was a 47 G3B 1 G -BHKW and i even slept in the hangar with her :O