The best type for heli-ski
 

Any opinions?
My choice-AS350B3

B3 with a Ski Basket slapped on to the skids!

TiP:eek:

The Bell 205/212, by far the most popular, the most utilized, the most efficient ski aircraft in the world.
Sure a B3 has power, but how much money can you make with a guide plus 4 skiers? It works excellent on a very limited basis, given some extreme high altitudes, etc. Even the Bell 407 is used more in the ski industry than B3's...simply economics...that 5th paying seat creates more revenue. The largest Heli-Ski operator in the world chose 407's for that one simple reason.

until a couple of years ago it probably was the lama.....:=
Now it has to be the AS350B3...but i hate the Lama slowly beeing replaced by the B3 :sad:

best helo for heli-ski ops
 

I am a nostalgic person...the Lama is a classic and will never die but eventually will be phased out :{

Best Ski heli
 

Got to agree with 407 Driver. It makes business sense, but the B3 does a damn good job. Used all over the world.

Yes the Lama is good, but seems to be out dated with the new stuff thats coming in. Twins seem fav (i guess due to JAR)...etc. etc.. EC135/145 even the old Kawasaki BK-117 may even re-appear. (I have read John Eacott's outfit uses it in Aus).

We know what is used in Canada, but would be good to hear from the Swiss, French and Austrian pilots. I guess Eurocopter products are used there too, and the Bell products in the US and Canada.. Down under in NZ and Aus..whats going on?

Could be a good discussion this... :ok:

MD:p

No such thing as heli-skiing in Aus, the greenies wrapped that up ages ago. John does transfers between Mt Hotham and Falls Creek.

Most of the Heli Skiing in Switzerland is done with the B3 or B2 with some Lamas and a few Bell 206.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../LamaHBxfx.jpg

Bitmonx, how many aircraft and how many skier-days are we talking about over there?

In Canada, my rough count comes up with approx 25 Bell Mediums, and about 26 Intermediates (407, 350) on any given winter day. The capacity is between 800 to 1,000 skiers/day in prime time (Feb, March).

MY guess on the USA is about 9 Intermediates, excluding Alaska Ops.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...he/AHC22nd.jpg

I think you will find that almost all the Heli-skiing in New Zealand is done with AS350s and a little bit with 500s. The Helicopter Line does use some 355s however.

http://www.helitorque.com/albums/tourism/agi.sized.jpg

Photo by Ned Dawson

407, in Switzerland Heli Skiing is very rare. There are only a few areas where Heli Skiing is legal in Switzerland due noise and political reasons. It would not surprise me that some single Heli Skiing areas in Canada are almost as big as half as Switzerland (Switzerland has a total land mass of 40,000 Square Kilometers....)
I absolutely love your 212 picture := I used to fly a 212 in the Arabian Gulf. Always dreaming of flying in the snow covered mountains. Some day maybe....

[QUOTE=BigMike]I think you will find that almost all the Heli-skiing in New Zealand is done with AS350s and a little bit with 500s. The Helicopter Line does use some 355s however.
Yes!
But what about 212?No one operator in NZ use this type,why?

Maybe due to no work for it during the rest of the year. Also a lot of small operators in New Zealand so the pax numbers are spread around I guess. The Mount Cook Line used to operate a couple of BKs a few years ago on scenics with snow landings, but I guess it was not viable in the long run.

RomeoAlpha, Mike is correct, it takes more than a bit of skiing to feed a 212 all year, Skiing is mainly an off-season fill in for the Canadian medium fleet.

Also...from what I understand...the Ski Ops are limited in NZ, they go great guns when the Weather is good maybe up to 4-6 groups (of 4) per aircraft, but must shut down during storms. The local guides have told me that there is no bad weather skiing below-tree-line, and from what I have seen at Mt Cook, I believe them !

The 212 in NZ is owned and operated by Helicopters NZ and is used for offshore oilrig support. It did some time on heli-skiing in Queenstown for a while (if my memory serves me right) This machine has had an interesting life and at one point was also the Wellington Harbour pilot.

407 is correct, heliskiing ops are limited in NZ. They are restricted to some alpine areas in the South Island which are not part of the Conservation Estate, and to winters when the snow falls a lot but the wind doesn't blow. (a lot)

Hmm!
What the activities for 212 in Canada in the summer?Fire-fighting?

Yes, Firefighting is the main use for the VFR fleet in Canada. There are a handfull of ships moving drills on seismic as well. The Canadian registry shows 82 - 212's, 55 - 205's, and 27 - 204's.

Another one Q:
Are they certified as a single pilot ops?
At least on heli-ski/

Yes they all are as long as you fly VFR.

Single pilot, the ski guide sits up front, and there are 11 guests in the rear. RH side seats are not used.
The aircraft are stripped of all excess weight, all extra instruments, autopilots, even wiring, etc etc are removed. The standard empty weight is down near 6500-6600 lbs.
I did ski with a fully IFR ship one year .. If I recall correctly, it's EW was just over 7,000 lbs? Thats 35 minutes less fuel ! ( @700 PPH )

Hey 407, with more than 9 passengers are you now operating under part 704? Or is there an ops spec to remain 703?

Is there a lot of IFR work for heli in Canada?What is the part 704?I don't no about this...

Rotorfloat, still operating under 703, day VFR only, but up to 14 passengners with the 212.

RomeoAlpha, there is a bit of IFR work, there are a few ambulance ships out west, 76's and a 222 ( ? I think), plus the HeliJet 76 airway flights from Vancouver to Victoria BC, a couple of medical BK117's in Alberta, and the huge Ontario air ambulance gig back east. They must have around 10 ships give or take?
Then there's the heavy shows offshore on the east coast, with CHC and Cougars Pumas, S-61's and S-92's.

What company do you talk about?

Canadian Mountain Holidays, their website is here... CMH

They tried B2's but that type didn't fit the program, so they moved up to the 407 for all of their smaller private groups. The 212 is still the main workhorse of the fleet though.

B4 for Heli ski
 

Interested to hear from those out there who have flown the B4 on heli skiing.
I hear from one Canadian pilot "it is like the B2 on steroids"
The Eurocopter figures have it with a bigger payload than the B3 even with the heavier (54kg) basket.
Any B4 pilots with comments?

B4...jury is still out. Guides and skiiers love it.

Windows (lots of them) fog up when it gets really cold. Hot sweaty skiiers get in and open up there jackets! It uses an standard squirrel mixing box and unproven hosing to get the hot (by then not so hot) to defog. Eurocopter is still working on it.

The C of G vs. Fuel ratio doesn't allow you to run the 3 pax up front with any kind of altiude (safety margins) as you have to carry more fuel and not allowed to burn it off to empty, so you are back to 2 pax in the front jsut like a B2 (but on steroids), The $$ ## dont work with a 3 million dollar 6 pax machine.

Better bet is the B3 with a love seat. The new dual hydraulic B3 has an increased internal gross. Which legally beats the 407 (they are good). Remember that Canada has a standard wieght for pax in Canada (206 lbs.) in winter. Do the math. I dont know too many Bavarians that are less than 200 lbs!!

Basically every machine has its problems (I think) B3/407 good...but really expensive. B2 ok $$ but a little underpowered (with 6 pax). Mediums? again expensive and the customer needs big volume of clients.

Take the insurance off for the season and go surfing!

Thanks for you comments - good stuff -
Not sure how your "love seat" works in the northern hemisphere but down under we are maxed at 154kg (2 @ 77kg) which makes it a problem even for the lighter ones in full ski gear.
Puts the limits on the B3 / B2 front seat
Whats the figure on increased internal in the B3 with the dual hydraulics (taking into account the installation weight?)
Where are the good surfing spots ?

at risk of thread creep.. but... my friends are constantly asking me how feasable it would be to attach mountain bikes to a basket and off you go...

has it been done and are there any certified bike baskets out there???

Bike Rack
 

Stringfellow

There were pictures of a bike rack on this thread;

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/401...ike-tours.html

Best type for heli skiing?
 

How the Russians do it...http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...er/heloext.jpg

Who needs lots of instruments anyway....http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...lointerior.jpg

john j,


thank you for pointing out the mountain bike holder i now know it can be done!!!!

PPL heli-skiing friends hmmmmm sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

What You need: At least 500 turbine hours (MINIMUM), a few hundred mountain hours above 10,000', at least 1,500 to 2,000 hours rotory to be in the running to be at least half safe to bring your friends & you back home in 1 piece.

Our company minimums for the same are 2,000hours rotory PIC, 400 hours mountain above 10,000', 1,000hours turbine & 200 hours on type. And thats just the bare minimums!!!! :{ :ugh: Happy landings :ok:

Yes and one moon landing and 100 orbits and 5 manual landings on the space shuttle :hmm:

Most of our guys have nothing less than 800 hours above 10,000' with some with 2,000hours at those heights. Its also an insurance requirement for the 400 hours mountain minimum. How do You get the experience hmmmmm work for a company that will give you the odd ferry etc slowly build the time & experience to be ready & safe