Handguns for survival purposes in the Canadian bush. Any comments?
 

In Canada, to legally own a Riffle or shotgun, you must take a course in handling and security and pass exams (CCSMAF). For handguns you take an additional course that allows you to apply for permission to acquire and own a revolver (Restricted or prohibited Fire arm). Then you go out to your favorite gunsmith and purchase your handgun, register as a member of a nearby gun club, wait two weeks to process your purchase before you can actually possess your weapon. Then before you can leave your gunsmith's store with your gun, you must have two permits from your local (provincial) Fire arms controller that allows you to transport it to your home. This permit is valid one time only for that day. The other permit is good for one year and is to allow you to travel with your handgun from your home directly to your gun club and directly back to your home using the most direct route possible.

After having gone through all of these steps, you will find that the reason for which you originally purchased the damn thing (Carry in the helicopter for Survival in the Bush)
is impossible to do legally.
The Canadian authorities will not issue handgun permits for survival purposes. (they have been evaluating the need for this for over two years and still can't come up with any conclusions to this time)

I am fighting this issue at the present time.

Any comments?

cptpinpin

Go with an over-under rifle shotgun/rifle combo if you are after meat for the pot.....or a long magazine 10 or 12 gauge pump shotgun if you are thinking protection from bears. You can carry some bird shot rounds and still gather small game and birds with the 12 gauge....get one with a 3" or bigger chamber for magnum rounds for the bears....smaller loads for birds/wabbits.

The only advantage to a pistol is they are light...easy to carry....but nearly useless for true survival uses outside an alley fight.

As to Canada and handguns......Forget it. Only the criminals carry Handguns there.

Sasless. When in Alaska I carried my nice S/W 649 (44Mag)with some good hot loads. S/W has also come out with a 50cal Hand hurter.
But I prefer the Winchester Trapper in 44 Mag. Short, easy to get in the aircraft. And Canada will allow it. If you can find one of the older Ruger Carbines in 44 Mag, also good. Its very hard on Wabbits though.
Suggestion above as to over under is not a bad idea. something like Savage produces.

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/image...savpicm24f.jpg


[http://www.remington.com/images/fire...0marinemag.jpg :ok:

The Marlin Model 444 would be a good choice. Not too big or too long to carry in the cockpit.
Should have no problems with it on all but the largest rabbits.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/444.jpg

I might be wrong but I seem to remember something about trappers being allowed to carry sidearms in a holster on the hip.
I agree that a weapon should be carried to facilitate survival in Northern Canada.

Kenny as in many U.S. States its not that anyone wants you to survive. They want you to be unarmed...........

Hey cptpinpin,

I went through the same stuff as you've described right upto applying for the carry permit because I changed jobs and I don't think I would get a permit to carry while flying an ambulance ship. The carry permit was for predatorial animal protection and was issued provincially as I understood it. For me that wouldn't work to well as I used to spend time every week in two provinces and two terriotries.

When I do pick-up the odd bush contract a couple times a year i carry a defender shotgun. It's not as conveninent as a handgun for packing around but with the pistol grip it's not too much of a burden. With 2 3/4" hollow point slugs it should stop black, grizzly and polar bears with one of the 8 or so in the magazine. Haven't used it yet but had a forester save my ass with one a few years back when a hungry black bear found us.

https://tp-commerce.techpro.com/wrbs...C-31%20web.jpg

Hey KennyR,

It's not just northern canada that has bears it's practically all of Canada. Bears aren't always a problem here either it's just better to be prepared than not. Bear bangers and bear spray are legal to carry and will work in many many situations but not all.

bb

the right bear arms or the right to arm bears
 

Maybe one should consider to enforce the law in aviation with these guns somewhere in Southern Europe...that might help to prevent some folks to accept bribes especially when tenders are on the line:E

Winchester model 94 lever-action in .450 Marlin calibre. Another great little rifle. More than enough for even the largest rabbits.


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/...otos/Win94.jpg

Well, when its all said and done, a good .22 cal. Rifle is the way to go. Both the rifle and ammo is light and don't take up much space. My choice would be either a pump action 22 or a Browning Auto 22. I like the browning since they break down. There are some pump action 22 that also break down as well. Either way you want some thing that is light and don't take up much room.

Why not pack a couple of pounds of ground round.

This will divert the bear's attention while you run like ****. :D


Alternatives; http://ad-rag.com/124.php

George
You have to be kidding. A 22...........You try that on even a small bear and hes first going to break it over your head, then he will stuff the remainder where the sun dont shine...........

Maybe for waskily wabbits.........But..............I think this will answer your 22, 38, BB shot questions.

http://www.mountainsurvival.com/news...earattack.html


Dave................... ROTFLMAO

Thanks for the comments guys.

To answer KENNYR's questioning on trappers being
allowed to pack a handguns, the answer is yes and this is somewhat recent.

A lot of people that work most of the year up in northern Canada wether they are are surveyors, drillers and pilots have had real close encounters with bears, all are being refused the right to include a revolver as part of there survival equipment.
I think that people should have right to chose what weapon suits them most for there convenience.

Revolver in a BH206 or AS350 cockpit is a hell of a lot more discreet from passengers eyes than a shotgun

Thanks to B Sousa for the link, Thats one big Mother!

dreamtime
 

When you abolutely positively have to kill it first time, or with the rest of the mag....

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/hk_51a3.jpg
HK51K - 7.62x51 NATO (.308 Win) - my personal favourite,
7.62 only requires 108fps of energy to kill.
or it's little brother

http://www.law-17.com/images/copyof_3.gif
HK53K - 5.56x45 NATO (.223 Rem)

Capitalises on HK's roller-locking mechanism, compact firearm, without losing the stability of a stock, & the hitting power simply not available to most pistola rounds.

This weapon is small enought to fit in the cockpit, & more importantly to tote when out of it, no point going to all the trouble of getting the permission to carry , if when you encounter the situation where you need it, you've left it in the cockpit because you were too lazy to take it out before going for a whizz in the scrub.

Penetration enough to cut a hole through a brick wall.

A slight modification of standard rounds , or purchase the more expensive nylon tip rounds, (these will open up the back of anything you hit) increase lethality, whilst losing some accuracy, but at the ranges we are porbalby talikng this is neglible.

The 51K was/is the weapon of choice by some of my previous colleagues who have gone on to better things, but more recent advances have seen some of them move on to new technologies, some however have remained loyal to the (tried & proven) above.

however whilst your gunlaws probably bite the big one almost as much as ours...this was my baby before little johnny & his team of hairy-lesbian-do-gooders took her away from me. (alas; now only criminals have guns)

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/f...ssberg_590.gif
Mossberg 590, 8 in the tube, 4 in the (compoiste) stock recess, heat shroud for when things get real busy, even a bayonet lug should things get very desperate (mil spec'd shotty, personally never did need it though).:ok:

I had a Mossberg one time....bought it in Anchorage after stashing my .44Mag S&W upon seeing what a real Brown Bear looked like up close. Loaded the Mossberg up....racked a round almost into the chamber....determined it would not feed. Returned it to the gunshop for a refund...then bought the Remington 870, 20 inch barrel....extended magazine. Never looked back since.

Gadgetguru again come through with all the neat toys. Problem is in Canada you would go to jail for anything that even whispered H/K.
Remember they are a non violent country, therefore no need for guns.
Seems to be some serious persoanl preference between shotguins and handguns. Sasless of all people I would have thought would like the S/W 44 mag. Certainly its for close kill but tramping around the bushes is where you get into range within a few steps.
I also just like that round. 44 Mag can do some real work. There are other good ones, 454 Casul, 50 etc. I carried the Winchester Trapper (take a look http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...cattype=534094 ) or when I couldnt I carried the S/W. It allowed me to keep the same ammo.

Also note that George must be smoking the wrong thing tonight as no 22 would have done that. In fact the guy that he ate hit him a bunch with his 38..........before the bear ate that also

Bert,

Will be buying a Marline 1895 Guide rifle in .45/70 for Elk hunting this year....which will complement my Ruger Bolt M-77 in .338 Winchester Magnum.

For Grizzly Bears....my thoughts were simple....one loads some buckshot rounds then some slugs...then some more buckshot in the 12 Gauge Magnum. That way you can peel off his nose...put out his eyes....knock out his teeth...skin his ears....with the buckshot....if you do not kill him with the slugs. I reckon that way...if he can not see you ...smell you...or hear you....and can only gum you....you might have a chance of survival. That and with the way my knees and hands will be shaking.....I would not hit squat with the hand gun anyway....but have a good chance with the shotgun and buckshot.:uhoh:

The Canadian Gun registry is the most stupid piece of F%^& crap legislation ever put forward by a stupid F$%^ ridiculously incompetent politician. That stupid SOB Allan Stupid F%^&* Rock.

He has cost the Canadian taxpayer billions. The only thing is the criminals have forgot to register their guns. Just this past year, Toronto has averaged a shooting every other week; gun violence is on the rise. Thanks Rock you stupid F^&* B*&^%%$.


Humble apologies every time I think of gun control and what it has cost I get upset.

I have a Ruger Super Red Hawk 454 revolver, you can shoot the 45 long colt in the same wheel ( keeps it cheap for pllinking). I am in the process of getting rid of it and getting the new version the Ruger Alaskan they make it in the 454 and the 480, same gun but w/ 2.5 inch barrell, the ultimate protection gun. The Smith 500 ,single action 50 cal revolver is also popular in the bush.


SASless,
For a short rifle a 45/70 lever action guide gun with a short barrell is a great choice. Get the mercury recoil savers!

rb