I would suggest that both are needed as they have different strengths and weaknesses.

Thread closed until Cyclic fixes his email address as notifications of replies are bouncing to me.


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Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

Training and Currency requirements for EMS/SAR ops
 

I am seeking comment about training and currency requirements for pilots in the single pilot IFR EMS/SAR role?

What check and training should they undergo during the course of the year and the frequency of such if it is more than than their IFR renewal once per year?

What specific operations should to targeted most, how often and in what format?

How important is simulator training, does it need to be helicopter specific and type specefic or can a generic sim be beneficial?

Do crewpersons need to be trained in IFR role to assist a single pilot in IFR operation or does single pilot mean the pilot does everything with no imput form the front seat occupant?

Is CRM training essential? :)

Nichosh, interesting questions. Have you just broken into the SAR/EMS market? :D :D

1S1,
No I have been involved for several years and just interested in finding out what others are doing in this area and why?

The first thing your operation should do is go to a 2 pilot crew for night and IFR.
Night/IFR , Single pilot SAR/EMS should not be attempted. At 04:00 your body's natural bio rythmes are saying sleepppp. Its like flying after you've had 2 or 3 beer.You need that extra body there to help keep you alive.

Just check out the postings on " sleep " and "capricorn rescue" .

Is CRM training essential?

Nichosh.

Are you sure that you have been doing this SAR/EMS work for several years?? Surely your Aviation authority will have currency requirements for single pilot IFR ops on their web-site. If you do indeed have a ATPL, these questions do seem strange.

Good luck if this is a genuine inquiry.

NRDK,
Yes it is a serious point of discussion.

With 1000's of EMS operations around the world it is hard to believe that every one would agree with each other and does the same level of training and currency.
The environment they operate in, commercial restraints between government and privately funded EMS providers would in itself suggest there may be great variables.
You then have the operations that have more toys to be current with to those who have less.

CASA does have IFR recency requirements laid down in our CAO's but they are a legal minimum for all operators to meet. One would suggest over water at night descending below lowest safe and doing night winch operations would present more of challenge then doing a GPS arrival to a airfield!!!

In some parts of Europe EMS operations are restricted to day only. Those operations preceive the risk is too great. Others will do hospital to hospital only and no scene response.

In the USA I know of operations that maintain IFR currency for VFR operations only.

We have all read about the SAR single engine, single pilot VFR helicopter that recently ended up in the sea at night 100 miles off the coast. That was an accident with many, many factors attached and from the comments to date a book could be written about it.

The helicopter that then rescued them was a multi engine IFR, 4 axis autopilot with two pilots. I know which operation I would prefer to be working for. The fact these things happen and no doubt will continue to in the future suggests attitudes of the companies and the pilots are not always possibly right.

EMS had a period during the rapid growth of the industry in the USA of having a very high accident rate. No doubt things have improved now, the majority of those accidents where not as a result of mechanical failures of the helicopter but that of the pilots flying them. One could draw from that their training and currency may also have been lacking if not just the belief that it all rested on their shoulders to do the mission and save a life at the expense of their own!!

Your views are still sought and for the record 19years in the industry and yes an ATPL even if it is an Aussie one!!

Best wishes and enjoy the summer while it lasts, it is winter here and still great at the beach.

Point taken. The different growth rates of SAR/EMS around the world, has left an often less than ideal number of operations. With many brave aircrew placing themselves and their machines at the limit. Often for what turns out to be a waste of a valuable asset. But that's the nature of the beast.

Thanks for your expanded explanation. Safe flying.

SAR and EMS operations must have one of the lowest flying hour rates in the industry, yet the actual flying tasks are arguably the most demanding.

Any operator who cannot afford to provide REGULAR training (CRM, IFR, aircraft emergencies, winching operations, night out-landing approaches etc.) for their crews should not be operating in this business.

IHL,
I don't think you can say that "single pilot night/IFR op's shouldn't be attempted" ... They are carried out safely and sucsessfully in many places that have suitably experienced / trained & equipped crews.
Nichosh,
We have a check & training program that has us doing one check or another at least every three months. Also type specific sim' training is invaluable. With larger expensive A/C many organisations severely limit the emergency procedures you can practice in the air. Training should target the most dificult op's that your'e likely to encounter.ie: Night op's to "the black hole"
Our crewies are trained and are great help in the front. Hope this helps.
Stay safe.
Scattercat

Scatercat . I'm a 10,000 hour pilot and I have done hoist rescue operations ,off-shore and at night. On a "BLACK NIGHT" I would not feel comfortable operating in that environment single pilot.

In Canada regulations would not alow it !

P.S. Black Air has less lift.

Agree with you 100% there IHL. The days of single engine VFR EMS/SAR are numbered and so are single pilot IFR EMS/SAR ops. Unfortunately a degree of 'macho' culture still exists here Downunder and we are slow to catch on to what is happening elsewhere. Hence the accident rate and the even higher 'near miss' rate.

[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: Out of Balance ]

Thanks for your comments. I agree there is nothing wrong with singles doing certain EMS and SAR missions but there are probably limits set to what is fair and reasonable taskings. Lets face it they where doing them for years before the twins took over the market and we are seeing a re appearance of the singles again to in regional areas and stand in aircraft while the twins are in for service.

They are less likely to fail than the pilots flying them some would say.
But for those who get accustomed to twins it is always a bit lonely with only one engine in places you would not choose to go if you had a choice.

The 90 day checks seems to becoming more of an accepted standard in EMS/SAR which is 4 times more than what is called for in Australian CAO's which calls for check flight once per year.

Could anyone expand on what is being conducting on these flights or should be conducted?
Are they being done as a training sortie or a check flight?
Are they with a check and training pilot or with another captain as a two pilot ride for building familarity.
Should EMS/SAR look for legislation different to the basic IFR requirements laid down or is this just becoming too regulated? :eek:

IHL,
I never said offshore / night winching op's were a "single pilot" operation. Our SOP's don't allow it either. What I did say is that single pilot SAR/EMS op's can and are carried out safely provided all the requirments are met. And yes there are times when it is appropriate to take two crew.
Out of Balance, I don't know any single pilot M/E IFR SAR/EMS pilots who do what they do because of a so-called "Macho" attitude. How many accidents have occured "downunder" in these types of operations that are attributable to having one pilot? (I can't recall any off the top of my head)
:p

Scat,

I did not say that SAR/EMS pilots in Australia do what they do because of a macho attitude. The 'macho' attitude that I refer to prevails within the helicopter industry in general, although I do know some SPIFR SAR/EMS pilots who believe that they can do everything themselves and largely ignore their crew.

If you want an example of that attitude in the EMS/SAR industry look no further than Rockhampton.

You and I both fly SPIFR EMS/SAR because that is the way we are told to operate by our employer and it is sanctioned by CASA. If I were to say that I didn't want to fly that way any more because I think it unsafe I would be invited to look elsewhere for employment.

The Bell 412 is certified as a SPIFR helicopter and probably operates very well as such in the charter/offshore market flying from A to B (although I think you will find that most offshore operators fly two pilot - because it is safer).

Flying it in bad weather at night to a remote, unlit and unfamiliar area and attempting to land on a road or hover in a confined area to carry out a winch is a different matter.

Of course, it is up to the individual pilot's judgement, however it is allowed in our Company Operations Manual and is recognised as part of our job description.

The military would only consider this type of flying with lots of planning, two pilots, NVG's and a daylight recconaissance. We are expected to do it with a quick response time, single pilot with only a Nitesun, after being woken at 2am. I personally believe that our type of operation would be safer operating with two pilots.

There have been accidents in the SPIFR SAR/EMS industry here that may not have occured with a second pilot. There are also many more close calls that largely go unreported. I for one have had a few and if you are saying that you haven't, then you are either telling fibs or have not been flying SPIFR SAR/EMS for very long.

;)

[ 05 August 2001: Message edited by: Out of Balance ]

OoB,
Point taken ... yes two heads are better than one up front. (To be pedantic .. does making it safer mean that it is currently "un-safe"?) And yes I've had the hair stand up on the back of my neck a few times. (Off to bed now after a 2am one this morning .. yawn :o
Stay safe
Scat :o

What cost SAR rearcrew?
 

Is there a market for experienced rearcrew or are you (the civilian market) training your own nowadays?

I'll get my coat..........................

cheap :

I suspect you're asking in the wrong place. Check Mil Pilots - I suspect you might get some contacts there with more knowledge, since rear crew are a rare thing in the non-oil commercial world.