Countonme
If everything is rosy in the garden, why have 3 more guys decided to leave, since carebear had enough?
I thought happy people stayed put? perhaps things are different in the middle east!!!
Cheese

Does anybody know the current Chief pilot at ADA?
Would be great to get his email as well.

Thanks

hi,
last add in Flight international,

http://www.flightinternational.com

Region : Qatar
Company : Gulf Helicopters
Position Type : Permanent
Posted : Thursday, 17 Nov 2005
Job Type : Flight crew


good luck,

you'll need it. take a parachute :uhoh:

I hear that yet another instructor has just resigned, and that there has been no real substantive changes at Horizon over the past few months.

Countonme - can't work out why you still seem to think all is well - seems to me people wouldn't keep leaving if everything was rosy.

Gulf Helicopter Salary
 

Could somebody working for this company tell me, honestly, what means the " excellent package", concerning the salary.

Thanks, Drakkar

Here is a hint. If the package really was excellent, people wouldn't still be leaving in droves!!!
The only 'payrise' they have had since I left, is an allowance to allow for exchange rate fluctuations. This allowance changes month by month I believe, and seeing as it is an allowance, and not part of your basic pay, they can (and proabably will) remove it at any time, with or without your knowledge. :\
They have been promising a rise in the basic pay rate since 2001. But it still has not happened.

I heard there was a Bell 206 incident or accident in the Middle East, anything to do with Horizon?

They Did have options on the 139 when i was there, but these were cancelled. The S92 will fill the VVIP role, to be crewed and maintnained by nationals only apparently. Can't have foreigners working on the new stuff:rolleyes: As nooby said, the exodus is continueing, at least on the engineering side don't know about the Pilots.

The last two 6 and 6 captains left during the last month. Don't believe the Flight mag ad which offers 6 and 6. The national GM won't allow any more 6 and 6 positions. For touring pilots it's 8 and 4 only, unless you want to go to Iran which is 4 and 4.

Of course, if you happen to be of the Islamic faith you just might be able to get whatever you want ;-)

Attractive packages
 

Back-track. To those of you blissfully ignorant enough ( and I mean that in the nicest possible, trusting way) in the sane world of Blighty to think that Gulf Helicopters is ACTUALLY offering what it advertises in Flight International (it ought to be called FLIT International at Gulf helicopters, based on the number of experienced expat Captains and engineers who continue to leave the company as I write this tome), here starteth the first lesson!

1) Welcome to the La-La (as in Arabic: No!-No!) land of HR and ''senior management'' at Gulf Helis! When GHC advertises ''Attractive Package'' they are merely talking about what most of us see after we are paid crap, can't afford clothes and are left only holding our own :mad: ...ing "Attractive Packages"!

2) As my learned friend has previously advised, it's all a LOAD OF BOLLOCKS! Gulf Helis hasn't actually put up their new-Captain's pay significantly for 4 years (and in fact now pays less than it did four years ago- factoring in the rates of inflation and cost of living in Qatar since - that's even with the ("Now you see it - Now you don't") Currency Allowance - which will inevitably disappear down the Swannee River (just south of Qatar Airways Hangar at Doha Intl. Airport) when the priceless GM (i.e. everything can be got for a cheaper price) has recruited enough odd-ball, disenfranchised, grossly cheap and hugely underqualified North African Islamic gentlemen to fill the 412's driver's seats!

3) No, chaps - life is NOT all Sweetness and Light in the richest per capita country in the world! Far from it! If HH the Emir TRULY wants to know why all of his experienced and valuable expatriate professionals are leaving Qatar, he only has to watch the antics of wee Mr. Mohd M. as he over-meddles so hopelessly with his private train-set (GHC) using his finely-tuned 'Souk Mentality'' (i.e. his addiction to saving pennies and losing millions of pounds) until he inevitably de-rails the whole bloody shebang!

4) Further translation for interested applicants from Flit International: "VVIP Pilots wanted for S92 Operations" ACTUALLY means -- "Well guys, it's like this, we ARE getting ONE big ole S92, which if you join us thinkign you will fly, you will NEVER be allowed to sniff the paint of (being unworthy, an infidel and far too experienced), but Gulf Helicopters WILL shamelessly lie to you about this (and much else) and happily recruit you into the coal-face of the company's offshore 412 operations in Qatar (and Iran) on an 8/4 or 6/1 contract (4/4 ony in Iran as the man said previously), pay you ****, make you sign a huge f-ing BOND of about $40,000 US purely to get that utterly deceptive SNIFF of the S92 (- never to be sent on a training course or fly it, of course - it will only do about 120 hours a year), will promise to treat you increasingly badly (unless you are an Islamic Brother - because Gulf helicopters is a WHOLLY unbigoted, equal-opportunity (if not affirmative action) employer (NOT!), work you up to your maximum allowable duty and flight hours every week, (6 days on, 1 day off for 8/4 workers) gradually reduce all remaining contractual benefits, death insurance, paid sick leave allowance, local holiday entitlement and anything else that H.E. the White Ghost can come up with in his demented Master-Plan for 2006,7,8 (This was borrowed from Hitler's Plan for the Fourth Reich rising out of the ashes back in 1946).

5) Oh - and don't forget that perchance you will indubitably end up whilsting Dixie (or saying a few 'Hail Marys') as you gently flutter down towards the ogg on one engine and a large oath or prayer in some obscure spot 85 nms out to sea, - whilst back in the office the Senior Management (well, at least GM , Ch Eng & Ops Man) fiddle with themselves (or play golf all day) as Rome burns around them and the GHC hangar becomes more like a Souk alley workshop than a safe and professional aviation concern.

6) The future? Wow! - What a dreamer you are! Right now the company's survival is limited to a little over spitting distance. Some folks just need to experience total meltdown and abject company failure (or a major accident) before they finally bloody realize that SAFETY and INTEGRITY are the only acceptable foundation stones and essential concerns of any professional (and formerly renowned) International Helicopter company.


So boys - do you STILL want to work for Gulf Helis? If so, get your Funny Farm stall seat reservation at the door and bring your own Xanax!:mad: :mad:

:8

Xavier95

There was a minor incident with one of the Horizon aircraft but this was some time ago now (at least 4 months) and was more to do with an instructor's decision making process than anything else. There was no major damage involved (an engine overtemp only) and no one was hurt

HOWEVER.........

This is from the horses mouth..........
"Engineers are being shafted by ******, obviously Za*** pulling the strings there, they still not got their passports, being held in limbo some where because they wont sign the Horizon deal, once ADA said they couldnt return there, horizon cut their salaries knowing they had no choice, and now **** is saying they are bound to horizon because they have accepted a few months pay so its auto matic, we only have the 3 main guys and one who seems to tour, everything else is done by ******, god help us"

I guess from those comments it is only a matter of time before the engineering really suffers. There were some measures being taken when I left some 6 months ago that seemed perilously close to being dangerous to me then - it looks as though things are only continuing to slide ever downwards.

Keep your eyes open and your chins up chaps !!!!

Money
 

Ok. I'm a newbe to the prune.

Experienced twin operator in Aus. Looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow. Have read all the posting re drivers in the Middle East.

So who is the best to work for now and how much do they pay. I see the 6.6 roster is gone, but is that for all operators? I have a young family and am sick of the thought that in Syd top wack is A$85,000 gross. We all know we get paid **** for what we do but I was always under the impression that over in the Middle East you all lived like kings, I am gutted to see it appears not. I am looking for that job that has better prospects then the Aus side. Does anyone pay well and give good conditions. The 8.4 roster is too hard on the family.On a 6.6 or 4.4. or 8.4 do you get paid on your time off?

Can anyone help with info.

middle east pay
 

No end of rainbow here man. Best guys to work but worst money is Aerogulf in Dubai.

Second best is Abu Dhabi. Best pay hands down but accomadation is shocking. Yu will only be paid for when you work and medical beneis the same

Bottom of the heap is gulf Helis in Qatar. Their moto seems to be "let the beatings continue until moral improves." They include expense per diem in the pay quote they give you. You will only be paid for days you work and no bennies off work either.

For you I would have a look at CHCGlobal. Not the Aussie version but the international version. Good pay Good benifits and a 6 and 6 rotation. Paid for your training days. Good allround outfit. Expenses over and above pay.

If you are determined to come play in the sandbox CHC has a base in Iran.

Finally....be careful what you wish for.

Job Options
 

For our new Australian friend - yes, ADA (Ad or Iran) or CHC (Iran) might be attarctive - although CHC there only offers 45 days about. GHC does offer 4 weeks on and off in Iran, but it is highly probably that the operation there will run down in the near future - so you might put your bum in a sling if you shot for that now. Still - not a bad deal though if you can get on with the locals, which is essential. They are a nice bunch actually!

Other option is Nigeria where there is a desperate shortage of IR Twin Captains and if you have anything useful :76, 412, 212, Dauphin, you will be sucked in by any of the operators there faster than you can fart! You should also be able to get/negotiate a 6/6 there without any hassle. Nigeria has its drawbacks, but so has everywhere these days, mate!

Good luck with your jobsearch! :cool:

thanks
 

Ok, I see now the options are narrowing. Thanks for taking the time to post. Does anyone know what the cash is like. Aprox how much in a 12mth period?

I have heard Africa pays well. I have also heard that the only way in is through Bristows UK?

I am starting to think that Bristows Aus is a good option. They seem to pay the most. Skippers aprox $A130,000 gross. Thats for a 14 day on 10 off cycle. Can this be beaten in the sand pit?

Cheers

:ok:

Probably not .... particularly for touring .......

Bare in mind that an Australia based touring pilot technically is liable for Australian Govt. Income Tax assessement will really depress you ...... You don't win (much)....

In fact you are better off with an Aussie job which pays tax free allowances than a M/E job which doesn't pay taxfree allowances! but will require you to lodge a return....

Be careful ...

Cheers :(

Whitehawkup,
You can tell me to stuff off if you like but if I was in your personal shoes I would seek out what appears to you to be a poor paying Oz-based job with a good family situation rather than chase "big" dollars in some arsehole of a country on the other side of the world. Remember touring means that Sod's Law dictates that you are guaranteed to miss important family occasions regularly.
There are some very satisfying twin jobs at home where other aspects make up for the "big" dollars.
When I started out no-one ever told me I was going to make a million out of operating helos.
GAGS
E86

Bitmonx. The chief pilot at ADA is John Hanley. The best way to get in touch with him is by logging on to their web site at:www.adaviation.com Matter of fact I understand that ADA prefer on-line applications. Oh yeah one more thing, ADA is a good company with the exception of their disgusting housing site. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING can prepare you for that dump!!

Thanks Guy's,

Eagle 86, No probs mate, your are right.

I have always been away in some capasity from the family. All because of flying and their used to it, but point taken. I have a job now that most would give their left nut for, but as usual in this industry it pays less then a Sydney train driver. I just get sick of earning so little for doing what we do, but like you i never got into it for the money and like very few i know i live for the phone to ring and hear that voice say, " we got to fly"

Just trying to assertain if there is a better way to pay the bills.

Cheers:ok:

Mr. Oracle

It’s disappointing to here such a negative attitude towards GHC and particulary as its safe to assume that the oracle is a current employee.
You sound very bitter and ungreatful and have failed to miss the point. The fact of the matter is expats are only in the middle east as guests aslong as we serve a perpose and can benefit the national people. The problem with this type of arrogant and opinionated attitude is it does nothing to benefit the expats position, other than to create miss trust. Clearly Mr. Oracle has difficulty realising where he/she stands within the arab culture but then he/she has a choice. Far be it for me to suggest, however, it would appear that currently he/she has made a wrong choice.

Yes. You are right, I am being controversial here. However, the point I am trying to make is don’t bite off the hand that feeds you and if you really feel that strongly about it, vote with your feet. To do otherwise does nothing to help those that want to make a go of it.

It would seem to me...an open frank discussion of problems can only improve the overall situation. The folks that are "trying to make a go of it" would have to confront reality, those that are thinking about joining get a good view of the situation prior to making their decision, managers can get a peek into what the seat fillers are thinking about the current policies, pay, and living conditions. All three segments of the population then have a common ground from which to work. Those criticizing the situation get some feedback from those that are trying to make a go of it....and the management keeps a finger on the pulse and can make those changes (if any) they think are required.

Quit sticking spears in the messenger....and debate the issues being discussed.

ADA has CRAPPY quarters....always have....probably always will.....GHC has some problems now....AeroGulf has crappy wages...ARAMCO has its bad points.....each have some good points too. If you don't like the situation...don't hire on....if you hired on...there is nothing wrong with trying to improve things....if you are there and don't care to try to improve things....shut the heck up when others do try to improve your lot for you.

I'm not sure how to quantify the "crappy wages" at Aerogulf. All I can say is that I was on a 52K salary in the UK, and the money in my pocket at the end of the month here (Aerogulf) is only around 10% less than it was there, after tax. If you add in the accommodation, electricity, etc, it brings me to over 10% more, and if I had kids in school, it would be even better. The admin support is very good.

I certainly can't fault the maintenance!

Phil

Blackhearts Notoriety
 

Christmas is a great time to catch up with old Workmates.

Word from Canadian, Oz, Kiwi and Sth African friends is that blackhearts exploits in the orange hanger in Al Ain have spread far and wide!

As diseases like jaundice (orange, get it), stress, management lying and lifestyle erosion are to be avoided, staying away from the disease source is the prefered option for all.
Any proclamations from blackheart about a cure for these diseases ahould be answered with rule No1 "Never trust an A***".....

Seasons greetings to all instructors and engineers left at Horizon. I bet the job search is going on in earnest :)

Good Luck and get out before something really bad happens. You know who will wear the blame!

Any news on GHC S-92 . Heard a rumour that it will be in Doha early July 2006. Any truth too this? Who is going to crew it?

paco, you mean that you actually earn less at Aerogulf than you did in UK!!! It just goes to highlight how poor the wages are. I hear someone's just leaving there to go to Nigeria, things are so poor. I certainly left the Middle East with its dreadful pay and truly crap, uncaring employers and went to Africa. OK, the employers are only marginally better, but at least you have something like legal rights and the pay is far, far better. I'd never return to the Middle East unless the pay went up at least 30%. Aerogulf is probably the best employer, but the pay is a joke.:{

You missed my point completely - the money in my pocket (i.e. after tax, and stuff that I can actually spend) is more here than it was in UK, despite the "high salary". Of course, there is no tax here.

I also don't spend 200 pounds a month on petrol just to get to work, and the grocery basket is a lot cheaper. You still need to get clothes in UK, though.

Phil

Hi Paco,

I looked at Aerogulf a couple of years ago with the idea of coming out with the family and in the end was told by the ops manager that he felt he could not offer me a job because he felt I would not be able to afford it!!!!!! The cost of schooling is huge and was in no way covered by the measley allowance set at 15,000dhms per child. Looking at my 2 children at the secondary education stage, it would be costing between 80-100,000 dhms, leaving me some 50-70,000dhms short!!!
I left a copy of the relevant N.Sea pay rates which were well above the rates paid in Dubai. For a present comparison, on our current pay deal a high/mid range Captain will be on £85,000+pension+benefits by mid 2009 if RPI remains at c.2.5%.

At the end of the day people go to places like the Middle East to make money, not to be worse off than in their present job. The problem being for us in the UK, is that guys (and girls) from places like Canada, the US, Australia and New Zealand it seems, still have a decent standard of living back home with the present pay rates.

The fallacy of someone in Paco's situation is he is not at home in the UK...and the money he is spending on rent could be spent on buying a home in the UK. If he is planning to retire in the ME and is buying a home there then he is on a good plan....otherwise he is going to be in for a shock when he tries to settle down at "home" unless he is banking a lot of money towards a down payment on that UK or retirement home somewhere.

While he is quite happy in the ME now...when he finally goes back to the the UK...he starts at the bottom of the pay scale and seniority list with no time in the pension fund. That is the down side to his situation as I see it.

No insult meant Paco....but it is something you have considered I am sure.

Helicopter jobs are usually not long tenured....for a host of reasons thus we always have to be looking down the road looking out for the pot holes coming up.

But I'm not renting out here! Accommodation (2-bed villa with furniture, electricity and phone) is included, as is schooling for children, if I had them. The mortgage is still being paid out of disposable income, which, as I said before is the equivalent of a 60K salary in the UK.

Aerogulf is flush with pilots right now, and there is a queue, and there are not many companies who can say that right now.

phil

PACO,
Has Aerogulf changed its education allowance? As I said, the 15,000 would cover kids in nursery education but that was about it. I would be interested to find out if this has changed!!!!!?????

I'll ask for you - from what I gather they would appear to have - Rob Denehy is the current Director of Operations if you want to give him a bell

Phil

Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
 

I quote:

"The school fee allowance has been increased by 30% above the figure you mentioned. This means that for children in Primary School (below age 12) most of the school fees are paid for by the company. However, the allowance will only pay for about 50% of school fees when children enter Secondary School."

Phil

Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
 

Paco,
Thanks for the info. Regards and Happy New Year to all in the ME.

Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
 

Outhouse,

I am in the same situation as you ....in the past I have found few operators that are flexible enough to accomodate those of us who do not wish to fall into slot 6 on the crew board for the rest of our lives despite offering to work all 36 slots at some time in order to have a specific two or three weeks off each year. As we reach this point in life..we have a grand tolerance for boredom and hardship but want to enjoy those short periods of time that are out of our control but hold special interest to us.

Wages and benefits at some point become secondary to our need to pursue that special bit of entertainment we have missed out on for most of our lives.

For me that is the first three weeks in November...the other 48 weeks of the year I could care less where I am, how long I am there, and what I am doing....but those three weeks are important.

I understand the complexity of running a scheduling board....but at some point the people have to come first if one wishes to maintain well experienced and reliable staff.

The Honey Do list can be manipulated if not ignored unless the Boss Lady corners you....and at our age...holidays don't mean much but time off is important.

New rumour heard....Aramco has an exodus of Expats going on...and hiring of consultant pilots cannot keep up with the turnover. A109's in service but reserved for non-expat non-consultant pilots. Consultants might one day advance to the 206's after decades on 212/412's as copilots. Can anyone confirm that situation?

Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
 

LOL - the Honey Do list! I've got one of those, too, but it lasts a lot longer than 3 weeks! As for time off, Aerogulf have a night duty followed by two days off, so effectively you get 4 days off, except for the minor inconvenience of having to sleep one night on the rig - you're back in by 8 o'clock the next day with no further duties. Excellent if you've got another business to run!

Phil

Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
 

SASless,

Concerning Saudi Aramco, we sent out 13 pilots in 2005 for A-109E training. Of those 13, 1 was a Saudi National and the rest were Expat Aramcoms. You are correct in the fact that we do not have any Consultant pilots flying the A-109E at this time. However, of the 7 Expat Consultants that we currently employ, 3 are 212/412 PIC's and 2 are 206 PIC's.

We have had a couple of consultant pilots leave lately, but that is the nature of the beast.

I have been here for 14 years and we have several pilots who have been here for 19 years. Life is tough here in the desert.

Sheikh Maktoum from Dubai Passes Away
 

For those who have an interest in the Middle East just heard on the radio and conf through friends in Dubai that Sheikh Maktoum died of a heart attack.

He was one of the three brothers that have transformed the UAE into what it is today.

May He Rest in Peace. :( :(