Questions about obtaining an Instrument Rating
 

Is there any way that you can do an IR for single helo's. Or only twins? How do you go about doing this - schools?

Bristows run an IR course at N. Denes using their classroom simulator and an approved AB 206 G-AVII. They could get you an IR on that type - assuming they still exist of course.

Under JAR the course would presumably be somewhere in the region of 55 hrs on type unless you had some exemption available i.e. you were a QSP (Qualified Service Pilot) in which case the hours required could be something like 20 or so?

Worth giving them a call.

Yes.... but, Double India is the ONLY IFR approved single. Single engined helicopters are not approved for IFR. So, your freshly minted IR is near enough worthless. You must expect to upgrade to a twin to be able to use it, unless you only want the training for the 'experience'. It is now based in Norwich, and there is no better.

Get in touch with Rick Newson at PAS. Phone number 01452 857999.

Stinger,

I may be way off the mark here but I believe the twin requirement is for Public Transport Operations, and therefore a single engined IR can still be used for private work.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong of course.

Yes, G-AVII is still going strong with Bristow down in Norwich but JAR rules have taken their toll. You can no longer get a Single Engine IR (not that it was worth much) and I understand the IR course they do there now is 20 Hrs B206 and then upgrade onto the Twin Squirrel. Still probably the best IR course in the country and as cost effective as you're likely to find.

Instrument Rating in the UK
 

Hi everyone,

I'm training in Holland for a CPL-H and will soon need a Instrument Rating. In Holland it's really expensive. I fly the R22.

What costs a IR in the UK? Does anyone have a good idea for obtaining a IR that will be valid for the JAR-FCL rules?

Thanks

Hi there!

Intrument ratings (especially JAR IR´s) are generally very expensive wherever you go. In the UK there are 2 schools offering JAR IR´s for helicopters: Bristow Helicopters (Norwich Airport) and CABAIR (Cranfield)
Bristow offers training in a B206 and you can get a single engine IR which is of no use but you can upgrade it to a multiengine IR within 5h (and if you are thinking of joining an offshore company in the north sea they usually pay for it anyway)
This IR is about 23000 pound including VAT and takes about 6 weeks.

CABAIR offers a multiengine IR partly flown in a R22 and the rest (15h+test) in a Twin Squirrel (AS355). I dont know the exact price but it should be about 25000 pound.

You can find both companies in the internet.
Another way of obtaining a cheap IR is getting sponsored by a north sea company and it is probaly worth a try to phone them up and see if they are sponsoring pilots at the moment.

Wish you good luck in the future!

BabyPuma

PS: Chances of getting an offshore job if you have your IR are very good at the moment!

Try Rick Newson at PAS. 01452 857999 or [email protected].

Thanks for your help everyone

Flying Dutchie,

I am moving to Den Haag to work this weekend and am curious to find out about private flying out there.

I have a 22 and 206 rating, about 50 hrs on the 206 now and would like to know if there is anywhere I can self fly hire one in or around Den Haag. Can you help?

please email me on [email protected] if you can help.

My licence is JAR not CAA so that at least should not be a problem :)

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The idea of not being able to stop before I land is scarey.

Initial IR (H)
 

I have an UK CAA ATPL(H) and a UK CAA CPL(A)/IR. I am not required to do a full cse for an IR but only as required. I have also just completed IR(A). I am therefore fairly current on Inst flying but need to get an IR(H) as the companies who are willing to offer me employement are able to provide me a Type Rating and at the same time revalidate the IR(H) for the relevant type, but are not able to give an initial IR. I am v frustrated as the CAA requirement to achieve this at an approved FTO not only seems to me as a bit of red tape in my case (it is effectively a hurdle to jump through) but also unnecessary in view of mty experience (ex Mil +1200 hrs TT, +800 hrs MPH inc Proc Rating)

Does anyone have any suggestions for the easiest (cheapest) way of obtaining the Initial IR(H) as that is all that prevents me from gaining employment!! Which FTO? what Type?

TT,

(Assuming you mean UK)I have not done the leg work for you at the CAA web site, but you should consult the FCL/PCL section. There is/was an effective exemption from the need to do an approved course for current ATPL(H)/CPL(H) holders who had a certain experience level - something like 600 hours from (defective) memory. You have to do enough training to pass a pre-test test with an IRE who issues a 170A - there may be a minimum level of training on the type - something like 5 hours IF but you will need that amount anyway. My final recollection on this was that the exemption facility comes to an end around the end of this year. All of this needs confirming but hope it helps

Give Paddy Connelly the Chief Training Captain at Police Aviation Services a call on 01452 857674. PAS are doing IR(H)courses.

Not sure if this is any help but I have recently left the RN with ATPL(H) on the Sea King, then did the various bits and bobs to end up with a CPL(A)IR / frozen ATPL(A)(I did the IR at Brian Marindin's outstanding school at Exeter, GFT at Bristol).. .. .I have recently passed my IR(H) with my new company (British International) on the S61N. They gave me a Sim course followed by 2 flights (1 of which was the 170A trip), then flew the test with a CAA examiner.. .Main point is that the CAA will grant 'experienced helicopter pilots' and those who hold a fixed wing IR, an exemption from doing an approved IR course. Write to FCL detailing your experience and I expect that they will tell you that you may get your IR(H) by doing 'sufficient training as required by your company', pass a 170A pre-IRT flight and then pass the IR with a CAA examiner. If you could afford it, you could of course pay CABAIR or similar school and do the IR(H) in a light helicopter without company sponsorship - better way is get a job then get the company to put you through the 'fast track' system I describe. Best wishes and good luck.

Where to do an IR in the UK?
 

Anyone know of where, other than Bristow's - who can't fit me in until Feb 2003, I can do the IR (single or multi).

Someone mentioned Police Aviation Services to me...

Rumour has it there's a sim operation in South France gearing up to offer it.

Thanks,

Barry


(p.s. the bit in the title in brackets was added later by a moderator. I'd never be so controversial! Well, at least not until I've got my exam results back.. :-)

Bristows are very good in respect of the procedures trainer; have no experience of their IR flying courses. My personal opinion is not to bother with the B206 IR and stick with an AS355. Provided you have a good grasp of the procedural concepts you may get away with no sim time and just some flying. (if you are exempt the approved IR by way of experience). Suggest Capt. Richard Poppe @ Alan Mann , Fairoaks although have heard he's pretty busy with courses at the moment.

It depends a lot on your situation (experience etc.) and when you want to do it.

Up until the end of this year an "experienced" commercial pilot (H) can do sufficient training to pass the test (and 170 A pre-test) and that is it. After that, or for those whose experience does not match the requirements you will need to do a course at a school that has a CAA approval to do IRs. Individuals (no matter how good) cannot themselves do IR training under JAR-FCL. This course must involve 55 hours. I think you can get away with doing some sim and SE simulated IMC, but the majority needs to be done in a twin - the CAA keep changing their interpretation of the rules.

Those organisations that hold IR(H) approvals should be listed on the CAA website - trouble is the list is very out of date.

There is the unique exception that allows Bristows to do an IR course on their "special" B206 - otherwise the test must be done on an IFR (i.e. twin). I suggest you use the twin that you know best and are likely to get work on. Trying to combine learning a new type and IR is just making life too difficult.
Having said that the AS355 is the cheapest twin (cheapest in this context is VERY relative).

My personal recommendation would be to go to Starspeed - first rate experienced guys and they do hold an approval. (No I am not connected). Like lots of good outfits there could well be a delay.

bclague

You can reach Capt Richard Poppe direct at [email protected].

Any idea what the exemptions might be? I have a current FW IR, and have held a military green heli - if I have to do yet another 55 hours I'll stick to VFR!

Phil