New Zealand - Training Schools and Job Prospects
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Looking to convert FAA ATP to NZ ATP- anyone done it recently?
Looking for a little help....
My wife and I are seriously considering a move to Auckland, NZ, provided there is a good possibility of a job prospect there for me... She has a job offer from NZ on its way, has lived there before, and will easily qualify us both for residency.
A have an FAA ATP, a little over 5000 hrs (mostly turbine) with recent multi/SPIFR/NVG time. I am presently flying an EMS configured EC135 SPIFR/NVG in the US. I have no external load training/experience (but I wouldn't mind learning).
Hoping there is someone out there has been through the process recently who wouldn't mind sharing a little about their experience doing so.
Cheers,
David
My wife and I are seriously considering a move to Auckland, NZ, provided there is a good possibility of a job prospect there for me... She has a job offer from NZ on its way, has lived there before, and will easily qualify us both for residency.
A have an FAA ATP, a little over 5000 hrs (mostly turbine) with recent multi/SPIFR/NVG time. I am presently flying an EMS configured EC135 SPIFR/NVG in the US. I have no external load training/experience (but I wouldn't mind learning).
Hoping there is someone out there has been through the process recently who wouldn't mind sharing a little about their experience doing so.
Cheers,
David
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Hey velvet glove,
With those quals you should try, Airwork/Helilink who run the local Auckland rescue and police helicopters, or look at NEST in Whangarei who run the rescue helicopter up there.
Other than that, you might like to look outside of Auckland, maybe the rescue trusts in Hamilton/Rotorua/Tauranga/Taupo, all one company, or else Christchurch (Garden city helicopters)or Dunedin (HeliOtago).
Other than the rescue guys, there are very few operators that can use thoe quals, except for HNZ in New Plymouth, they run the oil and gas helicopters, all 139's, twin pilot ops.
Re the external load stuff, everyone gives it a go over here, so doesn't actually make you any more valuable than the next guy, the multi/spifr/NVG will make you stand out from the crowd I would have thought.
With those quals you should try, Airwork/Helilink who run the local Auckland rescue and police helicopters, or look at NEST in Whangarei who run the rescue helicopter up there.
Other than that, you might like to look outside of Auckland, maybe the rescue trusts in Hamilton/Rotorua/Tauranga/Taupo, all one company, or else Christchurch (Garden city helicopters)or Dunedin (HeliOtago).
Other than the rescue guys, there are very few operators that can use thoe quals, except for HNZ in New Plymouth, they run the oil and gas helicopters, all 139's, twin pilot ops.
Re the external load stuff, everyone gives it a go over here, so doesn't actually make you any more valuable than the next guy, the multi/spifr/NVG will make you stand out from the crowd I would have thought.
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Thank you, I appreciate the info SuperF.
[edited] I also found the link at the CAA site (which I missed the first time around) that explains the process of license recognition/conversion.
[edited] I also found the link at the CAA site (which I missed the first time around) that explains the process of license recognition/conversion.
Last edited by TheVelvetGlove; 7th Nov 2014 at 06:06.
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New Zeland Info!!
Hi Guys,
I am looking for opportunities in New Zealand for a better life, I am currently escaping form Europe..
I have a CPL-H Easa & a CPL-H + IR FAA. and I am low time pilot..
Can you please give some information about the helicopter marketplace in New Zealand and clues to moving forward in the New Zealand marketplace?
My plan is to convert my license and add an Instructor Rating on it... I am touch with Helicopter Flight Training (HFT) New Zealand? Do you have any information about this school?
I am trying to collect as much information as possible... before take the leap...
last but not least..
It is possible for an Instructor to build up flight hours as fast as in USA in New Zealand?
Usually the flight schools are working?
Meanwhile many thanks for your time
Regards
Paul
I am looking for opportunities in New Zealand for a better life, I am currently escaping form Europe..
I have a CPL-H Easa & a CPL-H + IR FAA. and I am low time pilot..
Can you please give some information about the helicopter marketplace in New Zealand and clues to moving forward in the New Zealand marketplace?
My plan is to convert my license and add an Instructor Rating on it... I am touch with Helicopter Flight Training (HFT) New Zealand? Do you have any information about this school?
I am trying to collect as much information as possible... before take the leap...
last but not least..
It is possible for an Instructor to build up flight hours as fast as in USA in New Zealand?
Usually the flight schools are working?
Meanwhile many thanks for your time
Regards
Paul
Both Ardmore Helicopters and North Shore helicopters are also incarnations of the student loan experiment too by the way. Not necessarily a bad thing I guess but in the interests of transparency.
I know a bunch of guys that have been through HFT and would never go near back if they didnt have to due to funding from the student loan. I haven't flown there so don't know from personal experience but that seems to be the consensus. Most of their gripes were not about the flying side of things but more just getting messed about with their courses and delayed.
I am Auckland based and am about to start a C-Cat Instructor rating too. I'm doing mine with Heliflite. They are Ardmore based and operate R22, R44 and R66. They have a really good deal on R22s and R44s for training at the moment and have A, B and C cat instructors. Have a look at Heliflite ? Charter and Training | Auckland Heliflite Charter and Training.
Mark Law at Frontier Helicopters in Whakatane is also extremely well regarded. If you are heading to the South Island then Simon Spencer Bower in Wanaka is also a great option.
Unfortunately the NZ helicopter pilot job market is extremely competitive and very difficult to get into. Its not impossible but I wouldn't count on a job to do build hours after your instructor rating.
Also, to get your CPL converted you will need to add the NZ syllabus minimums to it. We have to do some mountain flying as well as a sling rating to obtain a CPL so if you don't have these already you may need to do some more training.
Good luck - most of the operators in NZ are good people to deal with, it would just be a matter of finding who suited you the best.
I know a bunch of guys that have been through HFT and would never go near back if they didnt have to due to funding from the student loan. I haven't flown there so don't know from personal experience but that seems to be the consensus. Most of their gripes were not about the flying side of things but more just getting messed about with their courses and delayed.
I am Auckland based and am about to start a C-Cat Instructor rating too. I'm doing mine with Heliflite. They are Ardmore based and operate R22, R44 and R66. They have a really good deal on R22s and R44s for training at the moment and have A, B and C cat instructors. Have a look at Heliflite ? Charter and Training | Auckland Heliflite Charter and Training.
Mark Law at Frontier Helicopters in Whakatane is also extremely well regarded. If you are heading to the South Island then Simon Spencer Bower in Wanaka is also a great option.
Unfortunately the NZ helicopter pilot job market is extremely competitive and very difficult to get into. Its not impossible but I wouldn't count on a job to do build hours after your instructor rating.
Also, to get your CPL converted you will need to add the NZ syllabus minimums to it. We have to do some mountain flying as well as a sling rating to obtain a CPL so if you don't have these already you may need to do some more training.
Good luck - most of the operators in NZ are good people to deal with, it would just be a matter of finding who suited you the best.
Last edited by Jelico; 20th Jun 2015 at 22:56.
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As an operator, if I was to send a student to be trained I would go with Mark Law at Frontier, or Rick Graham, over in the Hawkes Bay.
Both high time real world pilots.
Both high time real world pilots.
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Both Ardmore Helicopters and North Shore helicopters are also incarnations of the student loan experiment too by the way. Not necessarily a bad thing I guess but in the interests of transparency.
I guess my point was AHL and NS existed long before the loan system began.
HFT picked up the loan contract from what was left of Heliflight.
I guess my point was AHL and NS existed long before the loan system began.
HFT picked up the loan contract from what was left of Heliflight.
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no feedback from schools in NZ
Hi Guys,
im new in the forum, because is used different forums. But since I started to implement the perspective of planning to train in NZD instead of US, I read through the pprune forums.
Unfortunately most of the threads are old and not up to date, thats why I am asking the question.
I asked via email nearly over 10 flight schools for giving me invormation on training and visa in NZ, only Mark from Frontier is in contact with me now, from the others I ve never heard anything. Some write on their homepage, that they donīt take international students for trainings. Is there some sense behind? Is the job market in NZ after the training that much overflooded, that there is absolutely no way to find a job?
Further, nobody was able to answer my questions to the visa conditions. I know, starting as a foreigner would be with a student visa for approximately 12months. Is there a chance for getting an extention for 12 months more, for gaining experience in flying after the training, before you get deported back to homeland (like in the us with the F1).
Or what would be good options after the training in NZ with the cplh license for starting the carrer as pilot, if you are completely unbinded and able to move all over the world if necessary?
Are there any proposals from experienced guys? (except statements like, save the 150k and spend it in another job/lifestyle! I made this decision already 100times the last 3 years and itīs done)
thanks in advance,
Rusty
im new in the forum, because is used different forums. But since I started to implement the perspective of planning to train in NZD instead of US, I read through the pprune forums.
Unfortunately most of the threads are old and not up to date, thats why I am asking the question.
I asked via email nearly over 10 flight schools for giving me invormation on training and visa in NZ, only Mark from Frontier is in contact with me now, from the others I ve never heard anything. Some write on their homepage, that they donīt take international students for trainings. Is there some sense behind? Is the job market in NZ after the training that much overflooded, that there is absolutely no way to find a job?
Further, nobody was able to answer my questions to the visa conditions. I know, starting as a foreigner would be with a student visa for approximately 12months. Is there a chance for getting an extention for 12 months more, for gaining experience in flying after the training, before you get deported back to homeland (like in the us with the F1).
Or what would be good options after the training in NZ with the cplh license for starting the carrer as pilot, if you are completely unbinded and able to move all over the world if necessary?
Are there any proposals from experienced guys? (except statements like, save the 150k and spend it in another job/lifestyle! I made this decision already 100times the last 3 years and itīs done)
thanks in advance,
Rusty
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feedback from schools in NZ
Hi guys,
Im am new in this forum, because I was always in a few different forums online. But since thinking on doing the training zero-cplh in NZ, I came and have read through pprune.
Unfortunately most of the posts are pretty old and not up to date.
Are there some experienced guys who can tell me more about the visa conditions for foreigners in NZ? I am planning to start with my training in beginning of 2016 and right now I am struggling a little bit with the decission if NZ or US, because the visa conditions in NZ are not really transparent for me. Like in the US i know I will get a 2 years visa. In NZ I know that I would get a 12month student visa, but whats then, is there an extention possible, although I am finished with the training, maybe for networking, gaining experience, hour building on my own payment if it is necessary?
Hope there are some experienced guys in the forum. Further I am already in contact with Mark from Frontier, who was the only one who gave me feedback on my enquiry, from the schools I contacted.
It seems that NZ dont wants to have any international students in this business any more because of job market overflooding in this business?
appreciate your feedback,
BR, Rusty
Im am new in this forum, because I was always in a few different forums online. But since thinking on doing the training zero-cplh in NZ, I came and have read through pprune.
Unfortunately most of the posts are pretty old and not up to date.
Are there some experienced guys who can tell me more about the visa conditions for foreigners in NZ? I am planning to start with my training in beginning of 2016 and right now I am struggling a little bit with the decission if NZ or US, because the visa conditions in NZ are not really transparent for me. Like in the US i know I will get a 2 years visa. In NZ I know that I would get a 12month student visa, but whats then, is there an extention possible, although I am finished with the training, maybe for networking, gaining experience, hour building on my own payment if it is necessary?
Hope there are some experienced guys in the forum. Further I am already in contact with Mark from Frontier, who was the only one who gave me feedback on my enquiry, from the schools I contacted.
It seems that NZ dont wants to have any international students in this business any more because of job market overflooding in this business?
appreciate your feedback,
BR, Rusty
You are in good hands with Mark Law/Frontier. One of the most respected instructors in New Zealand and one of the even fewer that will help you into a job at the end of your training. As you have identified, job prospects are not good in NZ and I can give you a list of about 10 recently graduated CPL pilots who are all trained up with no where to go who will confirm this for you...
If Whakatane and Frontier don't work out for you then I think North Shore Helicopters and Heliflite in Auckland are both NZQA accredited meaning they can help with foreign students and visa's etc.
Contact people are:
North Shore Helicopters, Roy Crane [email protected]
Heliflite Charter and training, Alex Justice [email protected]
Both are good schools with decent instructors and safety records.
I haven't trained with Mark Law but most of the NZ Helicopter industry have great things to say about him and his training. I would have liked to do some flying there myself but needed to keep it local in Auckland so I could keep working to pay the bills.
Good luck
If Whakatane and Frontier don't work out for you then I think North Shore Helicopters and Heliflite in Auckland are both NZQA accredited meaning they can help with foreign students and visa's etc.
Contact people are:
North Shore Helicopters, Roy Crane [email protected]
Heliflite Charter and training, Alex Justice [email protected]
Both are good schools with decent instructors and safety records.
I haven't trained with Mark Law but most of the NZ Helicopter industry have great things to say about him and his training. I would have liked to do some flying there myself but needed to keep it local in Auckland so I could keep working to pay the bills.
Good luck
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I thought the J1/J2 visa for the US ended a while back but I can imagine it continuing.
It is a flawed system having instructors that were recent grads but it is the system nontheless and places like Canada that have generally experienced instructors are very difficult to places find work afterwards.
Either way in the US if you can get some hours as an instructor and follow the well trodden path to the tour market or the GOM or the many medevac jobs then you may get your first 1000 hours faster than in NZ.
Your past work experience is key to your first job as a new pilot.
That may open the door to Canada which is easier to immigrate to than NZ or the US and depending on which school you choose may have better training.
Make your choice on where you can work as a new pilot or else you may have simply chosen a very expensive holiday.
It is a flawed system having instructors that were recent grads but it is the system nontheless and places like Canada that have generally experienced instructors are very difficult to places find work afterwards.
Either way in the US if you can get some hours as an instructor and follow the well trodden path to the tour market or the GOM or the many medevac jobs then you may get your first 1000 hours faster than in NZ.
Your past work experience is key to your first job as a new pilot.
That may open the door to Canada which is easier to immigrate to than NZ or the US and depending on which school you choose may have better training.
Make your choice on where you can work as a new pilot or else you may have simply chosen a very expensive holiday.
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Heyo, thanks for the feedback guys! Appreciate that so much.
@nuthin: your right, the J1 does not exist any more. Today itīs called F1, and there are only 3 schools in the us, which are allowed to issue that. (MLH, BRIS, HB)
"...Make your choice on where you can work as a new pilot or else you may have simply chosen a very expensive holiday...."
I think this is the one 1 billion dollar question!
But I know that in US/NZ/CAN it is better then in EU!
US got the benefit, that itīs the cheapest and the chance to get up to 800-1000h before you get deported, when your F1 visa runs out. (F1 able to study and work for max. 24month, means first 12 months training, second 12 months looking for work! If you find no work, the best case could be that you go home with approx. 1000h and got a huge benefit to the other guys which did the training in EU)
CAN got the disadvantage, that the costs for the training are similar to EU, which is massive expensive, and visa conditions.
NZ is a very good compromise between EU and US, and personally the more I am dealing with the land, economics, social system,... in NZ, the more my personal reference leads to the NZ direction instead of US, my only concern is, that the visa condition got not that benefit like the US F1 visa and you would get deportet back to EU after training
And a very good thing on NZ is, that you donīt hear anything in the news, compared to EU/US/aso. Itīs a nice world-quite country on the other end of the world, far away from the crazy EU/US . And from the landscape similar to Austria with more benefits in climatic zones for flying.
To my education, I donīt know exactly if I would get a long time/permanent resistance. But after dealing 6 years world wide with small aircraft accident investigations in continous airworthiness departments and 4 years in automotive/aeospace quality and project management, I hope that this would qualify me for a working visa at least. In Austria we got special education of technical high schools, where you got the title "engineer" after gratuation and working 3 years in a special area. F.e. I am an engineer specialist in combustion engines. I know, that this title is nothing worth in the world out of Austria, which makes me extreme sad, because a bachelor or master on university is similar to the education level, but this is an Austrian problem
Nevertheless, after quiting my actual job at the end of Dec. because of notice period, at beginning of next year I will start the training and during this time, I am leveling the advantages and disadvantages between NZ/(possible frontier) and US/Mauna Loa Helicopters.
So I am happy for every feedback, I can get for feeding my options and makeing the decision clearer.
BR, Rusty
@nuthin: your right, the J1 does not exist any more. Today itīs called F1, and there are only 3 schools in the us, which are allowed to issue that. (MLH, BRIS, HB)
"...Make your choice on where you can work as a new pilot or else you may have simply chosen a very expensive holiday...."
I think this is the one 1 billion dollar question!
But I know that in US/NZ/CAN it is better then in EU!US got the benefit, that itīs the cheapest and the chance to get up to 800-1000h before you get deported, when your F1 visa runs out. (F1 able to study and work for max. 24month, means first 12 months training, second 12 months looking for work! If you find no work, the best case could be that you go home with approx. 1000h and got a huge benefit to the other guys which did the training in EU)
CAN got the disadvantage, that the costs for the training are similar to EU, which is massive expensive, and visa conditions.
NZ is a very good compromise between EU and US, and personally the more I am dealing with the land, economics, social system,... in NZ, the more my personal reference leads to the NZ direction instead of US, my only concern is, that the visa condition got not that benefit like the US F1 visa and you would get deportet back to EU after training
And a very good thing on NZ is, that you donīt hear anything in the news, compared to EU/US/aso. Itīs a nice world-quite country on the other end of the world, far away from the crazy EU/US . And from the landscape similar to Austria with more benefits in climatic zones for flying.To my education, I donīt know exactly if I would get a long time/permanent resistance. But after dealing 6 years world wide with small aircraft accident investigations in continous airworthiness departments and 4 years in automotive/aeospace quality and project management, I hope that this would qualify me for a working visa at least. In Austria we got special education of technical high schools, where you got the title "engineer" after gratuation and working 3 years in a special area. F.e. I am an engineer specialist in combustion engines. I know, that this title is nothing worth in the world out of Austria, which makes me extreme sad, because a bachelor or master on university is similar to the education level, but this is an Austrian problem
Nevertheless, after quiting my actual job at the end of Dec. because of notice period, at beginning of next year I will start the training and during this time, I am leveling the advantages and disadvantages between NZ/(possible frontier) and US/Mauna Loa Helicopters.
So I am happy for every feedback, I can get for feeding my options and makeing the decision clearer.
BR, Rusty
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Sounds like you have things figured out pretty well. I trained a Swiss engineer
(cable ways, ski lifts etc) a few years ago in Canada and he could not find work
It was tough to see all his efforts go nowhere.
(cable ways, ski lifts etc) a few years ago in Canada and he could not find work
It was tough to see all his efforts go nowhere.
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yeah, thats hard to hear. i think there are many guys with the same problem every year. thats why i am dealing more with the question, if you get no visa in the country you learned flying, where could you go all over the world to satisfy your flying skills and pushing career a little bit more. and therefor its necessary to know which license brings you more benefits?
Last edited by Rusty1983; 30th Aug 2015 at 08:08.
I can't think of a worse time to be training as a Helicopter pilot. The I industry is the slowest I have seen in 18 years.
Save your money and learn another skill until things pick up in a few years....that's if they ever pick up!
Save your money and learn another skill until things pick up in a few years....that's if they ever pick up!
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I can't think of a worse time to be training as a Helicopter pilot. The I industry is the slowest I have seen in 18 years.
Save your money and learn another skill until things pick up in a few years....that's if they ever pick up!
Save your money and learn another skill until things pick up in a few years....that's if they ever pick up!
thanks for your realistic summary of the actual situation and the proposal for learning another skill.
But reading through different forums including the content of back to 10-15years threads, itīs always the same and it would not change in future. I have never read in a forum that there was a time where helicopter pilots were needed urgently, except some ads from training centers to grap newbies. But I know a few pilots who made their way and every way was different.
Saving money and learn other skills!?
Believe me, saving money is some of the worst things what you can do in an absolutely riskful world in which we live. Just look at the stock market, they play with your savings.
You have to invest the money and therefore you got 2 options in my opinion.
1.) Invest it in raising a family, building house most of the time with credits, get a save job propably you didnīt like and live the standard the financials and governments subtli forces you to live...or you
2.) invest it in new skills for your personal experience and sustainability and live then the life they want you to live, but with the satisfaction doing something you want to do. There is only one thing which could be never stolen by others and this is your education.
I would be with you, when a person would try to get helicopter pilot as his first job, but after 10 years working in the industry, I think there could be some chance to try the risk for building up a second basement on which you can imagine to live the rest of you life. Trust me, building up a second basement is not a quick decision, this is a process which takes over years.
BR, Rusty
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Well, Frontier would be good to train with, sure. You also have the advantage of half dozen schools in NZ that use Cabri.
The syllabus 'forces' you to work on sling and mountain, can fly the solo time (ie learning the advanced sling stuff) or nav to meet EASA requirements, or bit more, if going for the FI rating later. For that, now it's 250hrs total heli and 100 euro PIC (not FAA post-PPL dual) but if doing 30hr course, need 220TT to start it as minimum if you got the command hours..
I would NOT however make any solid plans as foreigner in NZ job market, even if you somehow sorted work visa or residence (doable in other skills/jobs). NZ exports newbie Kiwis to Australia, tuna boats etc, as it's bugger all pay for newbie FI job and few between. Sure, can try loading chemicals few years for chance to fly R44 or 66 or 500 on ag ops. Not advisable for someone from abroad wanting to fly soon as.
The other day one guy posted on Oz specific heli forum (and Nz), same guy who was FI rated CPL from Nz, done Aus TTMRA rubberstamping conversion to Oz and it's year since asking first time for ideas, already a grad. NZ has too many heli pilots of all experience levels, many of whom work abroad due jobs. While it'd be great experience, seasons, mountains, utility oriented companies that do training, etc, I'd just go the US route if I were you and funded. Dollar's too strong against Euro now, sadly, giving us all grief who save AUD, EUR, GBP etc to burn in USA on flying..
I'd avoid Mauna Loa if you go for F1 visa, too costly, less likely to work for them, handful of bad feedback (along the lines conditional job offer and need to fly more solo NVG etc to meet the NVG training endo only to be ignored after).
Quite a few German speakers and other Europeans ended up marrying/settling in US. It's not all fat ugly chicks some anti-whatnot would like you to believe. Though the mentality is different as well as family values, but that's life and not everyone..
There are other legal ways to stay on in USA, not just F1 for ab-initio. Just have to ask/research.. As well as Nz, which doesn't have as strict migration criteria as Oz. Yeah, and cheaper. Except for paying lawyers in US, Australia has the highest migration/PR fees to govt and associated costs, of all English speaking countries and I've had some exposure/dealing personally.
The syllabus 'forces' you to work on sling and mountain, can fly the solo time (ie learning the advanced sling stuff) or nav to meet EASA requirements, or bit more, if going for the FI rating later. For that, now it's 250hrs total heli and 100 euro PIC (not FAA post-PPL dual) but if doing 30hr course, need 220TT to start it as minimum if you got the command hours..
I would NOT however make any solid plans as foreigner in NZ job market, even if you somehow sorted work visa or residence (doable in other skills/jobs). NZ exports newbie Kiwis to Australia, tuna boats etc, as it's bugger all pay for newbie FI job and few between. Sure, can try loading chemicals few years for chance to fly R44 or 66 or 500 on ag ops. Not advisable for someone from abroad wanting to fly soon as.
The other day one guy posted on Oz specific heli forum (and Nz), same guy who was FI rated CPL from Nz, done Aus TTMRA rubberstamping conversion to Oz and it's year since asking first time for ideas, already a grad. NZ has too many heli pilots of all experience levels, many of whom work abroad due jobs. While it'd be great experience, seasons, mountains, utility oriented companies that do training, etc, I'd just go the US route if I were you and funded. Dollar's too strong against Euro now, sadly, giving us all grief who save AUD, EUR, GBP etc to burn in USA on flying..
I'd avoid Mauna Loa if you go for F1 visa, too costly, less likely to work for them, handful of bad feedback (along the lines conditional job offer and need to fly more solo NVG etc to meet the NVG training endo only to be ignored after).
Quite a few German speakers and other Europeans ended up marrying/settling in US. It's not all fat ugly chicks some anti-whatnot would like you to believe. Though the mentality is different as well as family values, but that's life and not everyone..
There are other legal ways to stay on in USA, not just F1 for ab-initio. Just have to ask/research.. As well as Nz, which doesn't have as strict migration criteria as Oz. Yeah, and cheaper. Except for paying lawyers in US, Australia has the highest migration/PR fees to govt and associated costs, of all English speaking countries and I've had some exposure/dealing personally.