22 year old killed by tail rotor
The guy had never flown in in a helicopter before. How is he expected to know the danger areas? Common sense does not come into it. Unless a passenger has received an extensive briefing including walking around a similar chopper with rotors stopped and had everything pointed out to him it should be assumed that he needs to be escorted at all times - because he does.
I used to go to work on choppers and we received thorough, extensive briefings and we still had marshallers at each end to make sure nothing went wrong.
The operator cannot shrug his shoulders and say not my problem, the victim was at fault. It has a name. Negligence.
I used to go to work on choppers and we received thorough, extensive briefings and we still had marshallers at each end to make sure nothing went wrong.
The operator cannot shrug his shoulders and say not my problem, the victim was at fault. It has a name. Negligence.
Its your fault you didn't save me from myself.
This is why we have such a lawsuit crazy society here in the States. Too many people who don't have the common sense to not walk into the loud spinny thing without being "told" not to. Its never my fault, I'm always the victim, life happens to me,...now give me money!
Its your fault you didn't save me from myself.
Its your fault you didn't save me from myself.
There is a video of a person ducking under the tail of a squirrel and walking into the tail rotor (killing him) in Nepal from a few years ago, which I am reminded of from this incident (I recall reading a report that states the victim in Greece ducked under the tail to cross and met the tail rotor in this way - that seems to be the most plausible to me), and I wouldn't say stupidity or 'lack of common sense' played into the case in Nepal either, but rather a lack of understanding of the risks in the situation, especially when your eyes (which we derive most of our situational understanding of the world around us from) tell us that the path in front of us is clear.
(my bold added for emphasis). Always happy to be corrected.
….and you present this as FACT?
According to a Greek website this was an eyewatering €17,000 helicopter charter in order to fly a chartered private jet back to the UK.
I have a very hard time believing this would be a first time trip, again at the ripe old age of 22.
According to a Greek website this was an eyewatering €17,000 helicopter charter in order to fly a chartered private jet back to the UK.
I have a very hard time believing this would be a first time trip, again at the ripe old age of 22.
If we were talking about an experienced helicopter pilot who is acutely aware of the dangers of a helicopter I would agree with you, but it is entirely likely that a typical passenger will have no idea that there is a second rotor at the rear of the aircraft that is (in the right lighting conditions) almost invisible, and for the uninitiated, impossible to aurally distinguish from all the other noisy bits of the helicopter, so I disagree that the blame is at all placed in the direction of the victim here. As mentioned on this thread before; typical 'safety briefings' can make little difference if rushed through, spoken unclearly, or given at times when the passengers aren't paying attention.
There is a video of a person ducking under the tail of a squirrel and walking into the tail rotor (killing him) in Nepal from a few years ago, which I am reminded of from this incident (I recall reading a report that states the victim in Greece ducked under the tail to cross and met the tail rotor in this way - that seems to be the most plausible to me), and I wouldn't say stupidity or 'lack of common sense' played into the case in Nepal either, but rather a lack of understanding of the risks in the situation, especially when your eyes (which we derive most of our situational understanding of the world around us from) tell us that the path in front of us is clear.
(my bold added for emphasis). Always happy to be corrected.
There is a video of a person ducking under the tail of a squirrel and walking into the tail rotor (killing him) in Nepal from a few years ago, which I am reminded of from this incident (I recall reading a report that states the victim in Greece ducked under the tail to cross and met the tail rotor in this way - that seems to be the most plausible to me), and I wouldn't say stupidity or 'lack of common sense' played into the case in Nepal either, but rather a lack of understanding of the risks in the situation, especially when your eyes (which we derive most of our situational understanding of the world around us from) tell us that the path in front of us is clear.
(my bold added for emphasis). Always happy to be corrected.
Even then, he walked right up to an aircraft whose engine was running. All on his own!
Some, such as the Sikorsky S-76, do have door locks controlled by the pilot
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Helicopters have been around for quite a long time. Hard to believe a 22 year old doesn't know they have tail rotors. Unless he's never watched tv, or movies, or even paid attention when he boarded the helicopter in the first place.
Even then, he walked right up to an aircraft whose engine was running. All on his own!
Even then, he walked right up to an aircraft whose engine was running. All on his own!
If you do not understand this you have not been trained properly and that makes you dangerous!
DB
So it's clearly someone elses fault he just had to take a selfie,, broke ranks and ran into the rotor,
My sympathies lie with the pilot who will feel responsible for this act of idiocy.
You can tell a millennial but you can't tell them much.
We did the Banff helo tour and engine and rotors were rotating on entry and egress from craft, we were clearly instructed NOT to leave the marked path on the way to the helo.
My sympathies lie with the pilot who will feel responsible for this act of idiocy.
You can tell a millennial but you can't tell them much.
We did the Banff helo tour and engine and rotors were rotating on entry and egress from craft, we were clearly instructed NOT to leave the marked path on the way to the helo.
So it's clearly someone elses fault he just had to take a selfie,, broke ranks and ran into the rotor,
My sympathies lie with the pilot who will feel responsible for this act of idiocy.
You can tell a millennial but you can't tell them much.
We did the Banff helo tour and engine and rotors were rotating on entry and egress from craft, we were clearly instructed NOT to leave the marked path on the way to the helo.
My sympathies lie with the pilot who will feel responsible for this act of idiocy.
You can tell a millennial but you can't tell them much.
We did the Banff helo tour and engine and rotors were rotating on entry and egress from craft, we were clearly instructed NOT to leave the marked path on the way to the helo.
There are conflicting accounts of this accident - it is not definitive that he “broke ranks and ran into the rotor” or that he was taking a selfie.
He was 22 and by definition not a millennial (widely accepted as born between ‘81 and ‘96). If you need to categorise him, he was “Generation Z” (widely accepted as born ~ ‘95 - ‘10)
You did a tour in Banff, and were “clearly instructed not to leave the marked path”. The person who died in this incident was in a different country with a different operator - you do not KNOW exactly what brief he received.
someone is to blame for his lack of knowledge
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While it may be that entitlement, youth, etc. etc. contributed to his foolish and fatal actions, who here can say they've never done something foolish in the panic and/or relief of mislaying and/or retrieving a phone or laptop ("my life's in there!")?
My feeling is that a lot of the criticism directed at the victim is essentially a defence mechanism ("that surely won't happen to me because I'm not as stupid as he is"). The trouble with defence mechanisms is that they're often not very effective.
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Perhaps I am just a big scaredy cat but the one time I had to exit a helicopter while the rotors were turning, I basically crawled on my hands and knees for about 500m before I even thought about standing up straight. I really can't imagine getting anywhere near unless it moved towards me (and I wasn't able to run away fast enough).
Robbie, if you fly commercially I recommend you are prohibited from flying PAX. Your attitude to this accident is inappropriate for one, simple, undeniable reason! The poor victim never intended to end up deceased. Therefore, taking the activity from start to finish, someone is to blame for his lack of knowledge and ultimately, the failure to counter this lack of knowledge with physical control!
If you do not understand this you have not been trained properly and that makes you dangerous!
DB
If you do not understand this you have not been trained properly and that makes you dangerous!
DB
Given a fear that I might be incarcerated and sued into the poor house by someone like you because I didn't hold your hand the entire time, I don't want to be anywhere near an operation that takes pax!
Interesting the number of posters who decry the lawsuit prone USA. Like UK and most Western countries the USA has a "Duty of Care" and pretty well at the top is the duty of care to paying clients on your property. That duty extends to "foreseeable" incidents and way up in that list is incidents that have happened to clients before that the vendor knew or should have known about.
i.e. Other people have been killed or maimed by walking into helicopter tail rotors. The vendor knew about such incidents and therefore should have taken all precautions against it happening. Since we don't know about the precautions in this accident, we don't even know fully what actually happened it is rather speculative to comment. (I know, that's what this forum does, not a criticism.)
This is not a comment on this accident. Different country, different circumstances, maybe. Just commenting on attitude.
i.e. Other people have been killed or maimed by walking into helicopter tail rotors. The vendor knew about such incidents and therefore should have taken all precautions against it happening. Since we don't know about the precautions in this accident, we don't even know fully what actually happened it is rather speculative to comment. (I know, that's what this forum does, not a criticism.)
This is not a comment on this accident. Different country, different circumstances, maybe. Just commenting on attitude.
Over 115 comments on this subject.
No new facts.
Lots of rumour, innuendo and hearsay.
Tons of insulting, argumentative accusations.
Not exactly professional behaviour on our parts.
Really folks?
No new facts.
Lots of rumour, innuendo and hearsay.
Tons of insulting, argumentative accusations.
Not exactly professional behaviour on our parts.
Really folks?
This is pprune, if you want professional behaviour you need to look elsewhere
The environment under rotors running is potentially disorienting and the rotational threat to life is often invisible.
In most factories with trained and well briefed workers, such a threat to life and limb would be caged and screened if at all practical.
It takes many years of parental guidance to teach kids how to cross a road, yet we expect the public to be fully cognisant of the risk under a helicopter with an unaudited verbal safety brief.
If there was a zero operational cost to shutting down rotors for passenger embarkation, we would do it.....wouldn't we?
Mjb
In most factories with trained and well briefed workers, such a threat to life and limb would be caged and screened if at all practical.
It takes many years of parental guidance to teach kids how to cross a road, yet we expect the public to be fully cognisant of the risk under a helicopter with an unaudited verbal safety brief.
If there was a zero operational cost to shutting down rotors for passenger embarkation, we would do it.....wouldn't we?
Mjb