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Helicopter down near Bentham, North Yorkshire

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Helicopter down near Bentham, North Yorkshire

Old 20th Jun 2022, 13:19
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Helicopter down near Bentham, North Yorkshire

Apparently a helicopter has crashed in a field close to a road, Bentham / Ingleton area just before noon today, Monday.

Multiple emergency services at the scene.
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 15:05
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-61869042

A helicopter has crashed in a field in North Yorkshire, police have said.

Emergency services, including an air ambulance, are at the scene off Bentham Road near Burton in Lonsdale, after the crash happened just before midday.

People have been "strongly urged" to avoid the area by police, who said they had no further information at this time.

Burton in Lonsdale is on the edge of the Yorkshire Dales, near to the border with Lancashire and Cumbria.
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 15:07
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https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...edics-24273636

Helicopter crashes into field as police and paramedics rush to scene

A helicopter has crashed into a field on the edge of the Yorkshire Dales, with emergency services rushing to the scene.

A North Yorkshire Police spokesperson said the incident happened off Bentham Road, in Lonsdale near Burton. The crash occurred just before midday on Monday (20 June).

A statement from police said: "Emergency services are at the scene of an incident off Bentham Road near Burton in Lonsdale, where a helicopter has crashed into a field. The incident happened shortly before midday.
"People are strongly urged to avoid the area. No further information is available at this time."It is unclear if anyone is injured, Daily Mirror reports. However, Yorkshire Ambulance Service has been contacted for further comment.

At least four fire trucks and an air ambulance are at the scene.

It's also not currently known what caused the crash, which happened near to the Lancashire and Cumbria border.
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 17:30
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https://www.northyorkshire.police.uk...n-in-lonsdale/

North Yorkshire Police statement: Investigation underway into cause of helicopter crash

A full investigation is underway into the cause of a helicopter crash near Ingleton.The incident happened shortly before midday in a field off Bentham Road near Burton in Lonsdale.

Two people were sadly killed as a result of the crash. Their families are being supported by specially trained officers.

There was not believed to be anyone else on board the helicopter.
The Daily Fail seems to have the story completely garbled, with someone "Bailing out" before the crash, so I haven't linked to their article.
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 22:21
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Awful news. RIP.
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 10:20
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Sad RIP.

https://apple.news/AHNWdodQCQXq28Zh8pbrLzg
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 11:29
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It was a Cabri G2, private flight, two on board, pilot was coming in to land at his house. Very sad.
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 19:57
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Till the next time …..RIP
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 21:52
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Ian was small of stature but huge of heart, and will be sorely missed. Heartbreaking also for the family of the young lad that perished.
Are we to learn from this, discuss, dissect, analyse.? Or is it a case of 'wait for the report'... in 18 months when its forgotten, and no one learns much??
I used to fly regularly with Ian, often taking his old r22 beta away for days. But i confess to losing contact, esp latterly in his Cabri days.

RIP.
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 22:21
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If this flight data in the link below is to be believed, it was light enough to go nearly twice the service ceiling! Or, the scale should read ft rather than m, but even so, that a pretty darn high pop up to look around. I would have thought being at the landing stage after an hour or so flying, the fuel level would be low enough that 2 POB would not be a problem even on a warm UK day. Maybe a lack of fuel the very reason if the big climb sucked more than was bargained for?

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GCJEK

RIP the pair of them.
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 22:30
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I wouldnt believe that, speeds of over 200mph, i doubt it.
Bit like last year I was flying at 100,000 ft in my B3 , I m sure Airbus would be on the phone along with the Guiness book of records
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 23:45
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Originally Posted by Mutley1013
If this flight data in the link below is to be believed, it was light enough to go nearly twice the service ceiling! Or, the scale should read ft rather than m, but even so, that a pretty darn high pop up to look around. I would have thought being at the landing stage after an hour or so flying, the fuel level would be low enough that 2 POB would not be a problem even on a warm UK day. Maybe a lack of fuel the very reason if the big climb sucked more than was bargained for?

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GCJEK

RIP the pair of them.
The flightaware is very intriguing.
So hes undertaken a long x country there through the highest ground in england, doubtless showing his young passenger the lake district. On return he must have been weary, very light on fuel, and possibly hungry. Theres no avgas to my knowledge in this area, thats a big ol loop in a cabri. The flightaware starts in the Greenodd area, but could that just be where hes turned transponder on?? It wasnt particularly hot either. This maybe controversial but Ians obsession was VRS, you could be light years away from the actual state but Ian would get nervous about it. My obsession is over pitching, were private low timers remember were allowed our short comings.
Despite the flightaware showing what it does, i suspect the flight originated at his home, and ultimately ended there. He could also have been thirsty, or busting for a wee.
RIP.
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Old 21st Jun 2022, 23:47
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Originally Posted by johni
It can also catch a Robinson pilot out.
How so,...?
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 12:42
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Originally Posted by johni
A number of Robinson pilots have been caught out when flying the Cabri due to the large amount of right pedal needed when losing ETL

eg

https://assets.publishing.service.go...UIMB_03-12.pdf
Fascinating read really insightful. Ian had the cabri for around a decade.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 13:31
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Originally Posted by stringfellow
Fascinating read really insightful. Ian had the cabri for around a decade.
Well, just proof of how stupid it was to use a carburated engine in a brand new helo design (production start 2008),
especially when the S-300C demonstrated the safety and reliability of a fuel injected engine in a small helicopter.

FI rulez: no carb heating, neither auto or manual, no heating system checks, no fuel sloshing, no engine starving from spins or low-G flight,
simply the more advanced and capable engine type, readily available and certified for 52 years.
And they do acknowledge that Achilles heel: "The manufacturer also believes that prolonged yawing can cause the engine to stop through fuel sloshing. "
https://www.accidents.app/summaries/...20160201X01857

Regarding Cabri low-G engine stoppage: https://pilotweb.aero/airecraft/flig...ri-g2-6241440/

=> not really pilot error, mainly stupid a/c design killed the two

The most urgent thing Bruno should do bring the reliability of his G2 to its outstanding safety level
would be to fit a fuel injected engine into the next version "G2 B"
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 15:15
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FI rulez: no carb heating, neither auto or manual, no heating system checks, no fuel sloshing, no engine starving from spins or low-G flight,
FI has Induction Air temperature control - well at least the FW trainer I did my initial training on did.
Final checks were:
RPM control ... ... Max
Mixture ... ... ... FULL RICH
Induction air ... ... COLD
Fuel ... ... ... Booster pump on Contents sufficient
Flaps ... ... ... As required
Harness ... ... ... Tight
Canopy ... ... ... Latched
Brakes ... ... ... Off
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 16:41
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Originally Posted by 212man
FI has Induction Air temperature control - well at least the FW trainer I did my initial training on did.
Final checks were:
Well, the Precision Airmotive FI of Type RSA of the S-300C is totally "mechanic", a couple of air and fuel differential pressure sensor diaphragms do all the "thinking", including density altitude adjustments(!), no electronics.
Hence nothing, literally nothing of the fuel supply/injection has to be checked/set/configured before TO, the system is selfcontained and basically maintenance free.
https://precisionairmotive.com/wp-co...6/15-812_b.pdf

Imaging a Cabri G2i with the engine of the S-300C:
finally plenty of power including for those hot days, hassle free operation,
lots of crashes would have been avoided, not to mention the recent loss of two lives.

Last edited by Reely340; 22nd Jun 2022 at 19:44.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 18:13
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Despite all the talk of the Cabri engine potentially quitting, it doesn't explain the seemingly high impact crash and fire.
I would have thought with his level of experience that an engine out auto would have been reasonably successful.
This looks like it plummeted in from a height, which I would have thought points to either catastrophic mechanical failure or medical incident.
The reports of someone bailing out could point to in flight breakup and parts falling to earth.
Be interested to see what the AAIB find.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 21:48
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I'm of course lacking any recent experience with decent, full on LTE, but I was amazed to see how wild an attitude a spinning helo can come up with, when the spin had started from calm, level flight.

I'd entertain the idea that in case of full LTE I'd severely point the cyclic at some reference point in the countryside (that would mean to grossly rotate the cyclic while spinning) in an attempt to get the ship to pick up forward speed, that way to stop the spinning (weatherwaning) and do an run-on auto onto the nearest flat surface.
While this would require considerable height, I now regard that stragey to be utterly futile and not praticable, as apparently a fully developed spin will tilt your rotoraxis harshly away from vertical in 2 seconds.

So looking at the linked video I can see where a high impact crash from spinning might have come from.
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Old 23rd Jun 2022, 08:39
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Like many fenstron equipped helicopters, the Cabri requires anticipation of the pedal requirement - in forward flight the fin is producing a lot of the anti-torque.

As you lose ETL, the fan has to work harder to replace that loss of fin-lift and so requires a great deal more power pedal.

Add in a crosswind where the aircraft wants to weathercock and it is quite easy to end up with undemanded yaw - not LTE - and often FULL right pedal is required to maintain or correct the heading.

So not much to do with the engine - until the very high rate of yaw has an effect - but mostly to do with lack of skill and possibly training.

Not saying this was the cause of the fatal accident in this thread - more a comment on the other accident linked above.
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