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Helicopter down near Bentham, North Yorkshire

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Helicopter down near Bentham, North Yorkshire

Old 22nd Jun 2022, 17:13
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Marlow UK
Posts: 137
Despite all the talk of the Cabri engine potentially quitting, it doesn't explain the seemingly high impact crash and fire.
I would have thought with his level of experience that an engine out auto would have been reasonably successful.
This looks like it plummeted in from a height, which I would have thought points to either catastrophic mechanical failure or medical incident.
The reports of someone bailing out could point to in flight breakup and parts falling to earth.
Be interested to see what the AAIB find.
EddieHeli is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2022, 20:48
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LOWW
Posts: 338
I'm of course lacking any recent experience with decent, full on LTE, but I was amazed to see how wild an attitude a spinning helo can come up with, when the spin had started from calm, level flight.

I'd entertain the idea that in case of full LTE I'd severely point the cyclic at some reference point in the countryside (that would mean to grossly rotate the cyclic while spinning) in an attempt to get the ship to pick up forward speed, that way to stop the spinning (weatherwaning) and do an run-on auto onto the nearest flat surface.
While this would require considerable height, I now regard that stragey to be utterly futile and not praticable, as apparently a fully developed spin will tilt your rotoraxis harshly away from vertical in 2 seconds.

So looking at the linked video I can see where a high impact crash from spinning might have come from.
Reely340 is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 07:39
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 9,335
Like many fenstron equipped helicopters, the Cabri requires anticipation of the pedal requirement - in forward flight the fin is producing a lot of the anti-torque.

As you lose ETL, the fan has to work harder to replace that loss of fin-lift and so requires a great deal more power pedal.

Add in a crosswind where the aircraft wants to weathercock and it is quite easy to end up with undemanded yaw - not LTE - and often FULL right pedal is required to maintain or correct the heading.

So not much to do with the engine - until the very high rate of yaw has an effect - but mostly to do with lack of skill and possibly training.

Not saying this was the cause of the fatal accident in this thread - more a comment on the other accident linked above.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 09:11
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK Scotland
Age: 60
Posts: 186
Does anyone think a large bird strike could be a possibility. Had a near miss in an R22 with a huge
white Swan as I lifted out of a fiends garden once. Donít think it would have ended well for me or the bird.
RINKER is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 09:52
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 194
Vast majority of accidents are pilot error.

What are the odds of a technical malfunction or a bird strike when landing? very very very small.

My guess is either fuel starvation, hitting something (trees, wires etc), or some kind of handling error ("LTE", VRS etc)
hands_on123 is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 13:56
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 73
Posts: 17,356
Fire usually connotes presence of fuel....what else in a small helicopter is there that would produce a serious fire?

Ask the simple questions first before making your own determination of what caused the crash please.

Are all the rotating bits present at where the wreckage is located?

Do the Rotor Blades, main and tail, show rotational damage?

How large is the debris field...small/compact or wide/scattered?

Weather conditions?

Radio Transmissions reporting any problems or malfunctions?

Don't go running off with LTE or VRS without any evidence....that is so amateurish.
SASless is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 15:23
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Marlow UK
Posts: 137
I agree Bird Strike is definitely a possibility, especially as the location was near trees along the edge of a field. I had a couple of near miss bird strikes at Manchester Barton in an R44 some years ago and the Instructor had one go through the screen in that same R44 the next day. I think it was a goose.
Also saw the aftermath of one through the windscreen of the Newcastle Helimed on approach to Newcastle Airport.
EddieHeli is offline  

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