Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

2 Blackhawks down in Utah, no injuries

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

2 Blackhawks down in Utah, no injuries

Old 22nd Feb 2022, 19:23
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,468
Received 2,594 Likes on 1,098 Posts
2 Blackhawks down in Utah, no injuries

Apparently a training exercise incident, see

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/22/u...tah/index.html
NutLoose is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2022, 20:54
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,956
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Here it is:

Gordy is online now  
Old 22nd Feb 2022, 21:03
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,956
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Look at this video---the one in front is spinning right at the beginning of the video:

Gordy is online now  
Old 22nd Feb 2022, 21:07
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,956
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
And yet one more view: I'll let y'all discuss.....

Gordy is online now  
Old 22nd Feb 2022, 21:19
  #5 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,560
Received 402 Likes on 210 Posts
A protracted hover before landing in severe blowing snow is dangerous enough. Landing two in close formation in white out conditions really isn’t a good idea.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 00:14
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 714
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Maybe they can find room in their budget for a little training from a civilian heli-ski operator. Video had "bad idea, poorly executed" vibe from the first frame, ending with the inevitable "dang" sound of a shortened blade spinning down.
malabo is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 07:12
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Dodo Island
Posts: 103
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
A protracted hover before landing in severe blowing snow is dangerous enough. Landing two in close formation in white out conditions really isn’t a good idea.
Indeed - my first thought looking at the video before things got messy. Any idea what they were trying to accomplish ?
zambonidriver is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 08:24
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,289
Received 608 Likes on 266 Posts
Any idea what they were trying to accomplish ?
Practising snow landings for Ukraine??? Poorly executed whatever it was.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 08:47
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,218
Received 317 Likes on 176 Posts
Reminiscent of the German Police 155/332 collision a few years ago.
212man is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 09:01
  #10 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,560
Received 402 Likes on 210 Posts
212, that’s exactly what went through my mind, too. Far safer to go in as singletons, so that the first aircraft on the ground becomes your visual reference, having hopefully cleared a lot of the loose snow.

But then a zero speed, or slow forward speed landing is a far better option if the slope allows it.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 09:05
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brantisvogan
Posts: 1,033
Received 57 Likes on 37 Posts
Mighty nice of the US military to help keep Sirkorsky's revenue numbers up. At this rate they may knock Kenya's training record into second place.
Bell_ringer is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 22:57
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,956
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Too soon.....?
Gordy is online now  
Old 23rd Feb 2022, 23:52
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 121
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gordy
Too soon.....?
Hahahahahhah. That's brilliant Gordy.
Sir HC is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2022, 04:17
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: US
Posts: 175
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
It's one thing to hit brown/ white-out situations at new unfamiliar LZs during a life or death mission or other mitigating circumstance. Unless landing on clean concrete, looking out for the first signs of an impending crap storm is part of our pre-landing mental gymnastics....or should be. My exposure to years of training exercises sometimes make me wonder why the term " training accident" is more common than one would think. Isn't the purpose of training to go slow, evaluate conditions, adjust operation accordingly and communicate before, during and after operations? Then review and discuss what went right, what was unexpected and what could be improved. People talk about pilots having to make split second decisions but this seemed to go on and on and then on some more with no adjustment of plan. I hope these guys go on the circuit and explain how they spent a huge amount of taxpayer cash and that they now see that during a training exercise, discretion is always the better part of valor.

It's possible that back in 2000 more or better training would have prevented an H60 from rolling down the side of Mt. Shasta from 12K due to rapid loss of reference but at least they were trying to get to someone in need. Training is the time for things to go smoothly, not just go out and follow the plan profile and for someone in a command position to say " stop now".
roscoe1 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:39
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Iceland
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
We used to call it to "crash into lz" during heliskiing operations, the description for no hover landing in powder snow to avoid white-out. It looks like they took it to next level
rotorrookie is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2022, 16:21
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 279
Received 17 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Sir HC
Hahahahahhah. That's brilliant Gordy.
And I was thinking the unit commander wanted to go skiing and was just trying to avoid the long lift lines

Hat and coat too the door
Bksmithca is online now  
Old 24th Feb 2022, 17:37
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,956
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Bksmithca
And I was thinking the unit commander wanted to go skiing and was just trying to avoid the long lift lines
Probably too close to the truth for comfort. Snowbird is one of the 4 major ski resorts in the cottonwood canyons and it would not surprise me to hear that they were landing there "as part of their training', but also to get a cool photo to show people. There are PLENTY of other paces to land away from a high density populated ski resort.
Gordy is online now  
Old 24th Feb 2022, 21:21
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: yes
Posts: 364
Received 18 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by roscoe1
...
It's possible that back in 2000 more or better training would have prevented an H60 from rolling down the side of Mt. Shasta from 12K due to rapid loss of reference but at least they were trying to get to someone in need.
...
Mt. Hood maybe? 2002? USAF H60? Insufficeint power to HOGE? No loss of visual, just needed more-better training interpreting the operator's manul performance data.

JimEli is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2022, 22:33
  #19 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,609
Received 57 Likes on 41 Posts
but also to get a cool photo to show people.
They got it.

There are PLENTY of other paces to land away from a high density populated ski resort.
Yes, but if you're going to run into trouble, it's nice to do it where help will walk [ski] over to see if you're okay!

I understand that in one of Canada's native languages, "snow" is actually described more specifically with one of seven different words. I'm guessing that several of them are "avoid HIGE" type snow!
Pilot DAR is online now  
Old 25th Feb 2022, 07:01
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Used to be God's own County
Posts: 1,718
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
If you are going to crash - crash in a Black Hawk. It is not by chance that you'll walk away more often than not.
EESDL is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.