Flying loads out from between power lines
One thing to keep in mind when long lining with a twin is that when the donkey resigns and you punch off the load, if not the long line too, you are left with a helicopter that has I person aboard, probably a small fuel load and that’s all. Hence your mass is pretty low and you’ll probably have very reasonable OEI performance.
We had one fellow lose an engine in a AS335 in such circumstances and it was a non event he did pull full OEI temp limits as it was a very hot day.
Another in a 212 with -3B engines and he didn’t even need to pull OEI power to recover and return to base with his 200’ LL still attached. He was working over jungle with 180’ trees and the long line was about 10’ feet from the jungle floor when it happened. 500 ASL, 0 wind, 30 C. It was “Calm, cool and collective” that day as the “Stud Duck” AKA the chief pilot said.
We had one fellow lose an engine in a AS335 in such circumstances and it was a non event he did pull full OEI temp limits as it was a very hot day.
Another in a 212 with -3B engines and he didn’t even need to pull OEI power to recover and return to base with his 200’ LL still attached. He was working over jungle with 180’ trees and the long line was about 10’ feet from the jungle floor when it happened. 500 ASL, 0 wind, 30 C. It was “Calm, cool and collective” that day as the “Stud Duck” AKA the chief pilot said.
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Looks like a Calfire Blackhawk lost an engine during a hoist operation but couldn't maintain a hover.
https://www.safecom.gov/safecom/21-0993
https://www.safecom.gov/safecom/21-0993
Questions I have:
1. Why were they conducting live winching/hoisting TRAINING when they didn't have OEI hover performance?
2. Why were they descending to a 150' hover with the rescuer already deployed on 125' of cable?
Before deploying a rescuer on a hoist, you should be in a stable hover having conducted a power assessment and confirmed whether you are Safe OEI, Flyaway, or Committed so the winch/hoist operator knows exactly what his actions need to be in the event of an engine malfunction. You should always be Safe OEI for training.
Everyone thinks winching is easy and just posh hovering until something goes wrong.
1. Why were they conducting live winching/hoisting TRAINING when they didn't have OEI hover performance?
2. Why were they descending to a 150' hover with the rescuer already deployed on 125' of cable?
Before deploying a rescuer on a hoist, you should be in a stable hover having conducted a power assessment and confirmed whether you are Safe OEI, Flyaway, or Committed so the winch/hoist operator knows exactly what his actions need to be in the event of an engine malfunction. You should always be Safe OEI for training.
Everyone thinks winching is easy and just posh hovering until something goes wrong.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Questions I have:
1. Why were they conducting live winching/hoisting TRAINING when they didn't have OEI hover performance?
1. Why were they conducting live winching/hoisting TRAINING when they didn't have OEI hover performance?
Just accept we do things different and again, all because it does not fit into your "box" does not mean it is wrong.
2 sets of eyes when performing patrols is good practice. 2 sets of eyes crashing to the ground when performing vertical reference work is just plain stupid unless you are flying some old equipment that needs an extra 200 lbs to function properly.
ie - SCE used to use 2 pilots in their 135 when the AFM requires one. They should have learned to longline from the right seat.
429 is likely a better fit for them.
ie - SCE used to use 2 pilots in their 135 when the AFM requires one. They should have learned to longline from the right seat.
429 is likely a better fit for them.
Gordy, I guess you just don't like the guys on the wire then.
Is it wrong in the US to have concerns for the safety of your workmates?
If the rescuer in this case had sustained more than light injuries and ended up in a wheelchair, would you have such a cavalier attitude to his welfare?
The point is that it was an avoidable accident.
Is it wrong in the US to have concerns for the safety of your workmates?
If the rescuer in this case had sustained more than light injuries and ended up in a wheelchair, would you have such a cavalier attitude to his welfare?
The point is that it was an avoidable accident.
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Far be it for me to agree with crab, because you know I'm Mr. Live Free & Die, fly a single, fly a Robinson, we are all big boys and girls, etc., etc., but in this case I have to say it doesn't make a lot of sense, if you do have a twin, to train in a regime where OEI performance is limited. When a single is what you've got well, it's what you've got. No getting around it. But in this case it doesn't make sense. Especially in a public machine, where money is not as big an object as it is for a private machine. Spend the ferry time to go somewhere lower/cooler, etc.
On the other hand it's still funny how everyone's risk envelope is so different. Here I am agreeing with crab about this, but not about something like auto's to grass. How much of that is how you were trained, how you operated and how much contempt familiarity bred? And how much is pure science, engineering and statistics? Always a good discussion
On the other hand it's still funny how everyone's risk envelope is so different. Here I am agreeing with crab about this, but not about something like auto's to grass. How much of that is how you were trained, how you operated and how much contempt familiarity bred? And how much is pure science, engineering and statistics? Always a good discussion
Year after year we sit in ICAR Air Commission meetings saying we have to do something about HEC accidents and year after year some territories tell us how the end of the world will come if they have to be as fussy as the stupid Brits. (Probably still the safest country in the world in spite of BJ.)
