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Helicopter One Stick Control

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Helicopter One Stick Control

Old 14th Apr 2021, 11:43
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Helicopter One Stick Control

Didn't they do a trial on an H53, where the pilot had a FBW joystick which worked in 4 axes as a cyclic; with an up-down range for collective and a twist grip for yaw? Clearly went nowhere. I can find no record...

Did I dream this? I'm confident I didn't! Can I patent it!

CG
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 14:12
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I don't know about the 53, but they definitely did that on the Sikorsky SHADOW. The concept didn't work all that great. The Comanche had no pedals, just a sidearm controller and collective. All of Sikorsky's later FBW efforts had separate controls like a traditional helicopter. I assume they covered the 4 axis control with patents.

Last edited by IFMU; 14th Apr 2021 at 18:08.
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 15:39
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I saw an experimental one fitted to a Bell 205 at the Canadian aeronautical establishment (National Research Council ) in Ottawa years ago. up-down for collective, twist left-right for TR control and stir it around for cyclic control. Oh it had no stab bar. I have sent a request to them for more information.
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 16:33
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
I saw an experimental one fitted to a Bell 205 at the Canadian aeronautical establishment (National Research Council ) in Ottawa years ago. up-down for collective, twist left-right for TR control and stir it around for cyclic control. Oh it had no stab bar. I have sent a request to them for more information.
At least I didn't make it up!

Cheers Albatross and IFMU.

CG
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 17:03
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Comanche had no pedals, just a sidearm controller and pedals
I'm guessing that one of those references to 'pedals' should say 'collective'?
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 18:09
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Originally Posted by 212man View Post
I'm guessing that one of those references to 'pedals' should say 'collective'?
Fixed, thanks.
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 20:18
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It wasn't a success because of the limitations of the human arm - raising the "collective" induced movement in other axes, and it was hard to get a pure movement in one axis without disturbing the others. Of course with the natural secondary effects of controls, moving one requires corrections in the others, but the induced movements weren't necessarily in the right direction.
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 21:13
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Trying to control a vertical bounce would have been interesting.
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Old 14th Apr 2021, 21:44
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
It wasn't a success because of the limitations of the human arm - raising the "collective" induced movement in other axes, and it was hard to get a pure movement in one axis without disturbing the others. Of course with the natural secondary effects of controls, moving one requires corrections in the others, but the induced movements weren't necessarily in the right direction.
Only half of a FBW solution - rather than just directly controlling the flight surfaces it should have been directing a stabilised flight controller. In other words, an up command needed to also know about increasing anti torque, compensating side drift etc.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 00:49
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I played around with the 4 axis controller in the sim at Sikorsky a bunch. From what I remember it was very hard to not cross couple even with all the fancy control laws. Some of the Sikorsky pilots got decent at it but it was a high workload. We had an old Comanche sidearm for the X2 but we didn't use the yaw axis. We had pedals instead.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 03:40
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ARTI

Bell and McDonnell Helicopter were experimenting with 4 axis controllers under the ARTI program in the 80ís.

Bell/McDonnell-Douglas LHX helicopter - development history, photos, technical data
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 14:12
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It would be interesting trying to operate a one-stick control if a hydraulic system failed. Fwd, aft, left, right wouldn't be too much of a problem on a lightie but up, down, twist could be quite challenging. If however it's all FBW then maybe a Playstation control would be better.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 14:21
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MH-53E Hoist Controller

The MH-53E incorporated a limited 2 axis (FWD/AFT Left/Right) control on the hoist controller. This allowed the crew chief to position the aircraft over the load to be hoisted.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 14:46
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Doesn’t the S-64 Skycrane have a hand controller in the rear facing cockpit to aid in precision placing of long-line controls?
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 11:14
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What was the reasoning behind these trials? Having the left hand available at all times might be an advantage in a complex single pilot cockpit. But why get rid of the pedals?

I know two people that are dreaming of such a setup due to physical disabilities.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 12:18
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Folks who did back seat flying in the CH-54 where the electric sidearm controller did pitch/roll and yaw would certainly concur with Ascend Charlie and IFMU. Still, the RAH-66 had those three on the sidearm, but you'll also note that the MHP S-92 FBW has electric pedals.

Last edited by JohnDixson; 16th Apr 2021 at 12:22. Reason: Additional thought
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