Helicopter One Stick Control

[charliegolf]

Didn't they do a trial on an H53, where the pilot had a FBW joystick which worked in 4 axes as a cyclic; with an up-down range for collective and a twist grip for yaw? Clearly went nowhere. I can find no record...

Did I dream this? I'm confident I didn't! Can I patent it!

CG

[IFMU]

I don't know about the 53, but they definitely did that on the Sikorsky SHADOW. The concept didn't work all that great. The Comanche had no pedals, just a sidearm controller and collective. All of Sikorsky's later FBW efforts had separate controls like a traditional helicopter. I assume they covered the 4 axis control with patents.

[albatross]

I saw an experimental one fitted to a Bell 205 at the Canadian aeronautical establishment (National Research Council ) in Ottawa years ago. up-down for collective, twist left-right for TR control and stir it around for cyclic control. Oh it had no stab bar. I have sent a request to them for more information.

[charliegolf]

Originally Posted by albatross

I saw an experimental one fitted to a Bell 205 at the Canadian aeronautical establishment (National Research Council ) in Ottawa years ago. up-down for collective, twist left-right for TR control and stir it around for cyclic control. Oh it had no stab bar. I have sent a request to them for more information.

At least I didn't make it up!

Cheers Albatross and IFMU.

CG

[212man]

Comanche had no pedals, just a sidearm controller and pedals

I'm guessing that one of those references to 'pedals' should say 'collective'?

[IFMU]

Originally Posted by 212man

I'm guessing that one of those references to 'pedals' should say 'collective'?

Fixed, thanks.

[Ascend Charlie]

It wasn't a success because of the limitations of the human arm - raising the "collective" induced movement in other axes, and it was hard to get a pure movement in one axis without disturbing the others. Of course with the natural secondary effects of controls, moving one requires corrections in the others, but the induced movements weren't necessarily in the right direction.

[ShyTorque]

Trying to control a vertical bounce would have been interesting.

[krypton_john]

Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie

It wasn't a success because of the limitations of the human arm - raising the "collective" induced movement in other axes, and it was hard to get a pure movement in one axis without disturbing the others. Of course with the natural secondary effects of controls, moving one requires corrections in the others, but the induced movements weren't necessarily in the right direction.

Only half of a FBW solution - rather than just directly controlling the flight surfaces it should have been directing a stabilised flight controller. In other words, an up command needed to also know about increasing anti torque, compensating side drift etc.

[IFMU]

I played around with the 4 axis controller in the sim at Sikorsky a bunch. From what I remember it was very hard to not cross couple even with all the fancy control laws. Some of the Sikorsky pilots got decent at it but it was a high workload. We had an old Comanche sidearm for the X2 but we didn't use the yaw axis. We had pedals instead.

[CTR]

ARTI

Bell and McDonnell Helicopter were experimenting with 4 axis controllers under the ARTI program in the 80’s.

Bell/McDonnell-Douglas LHX helicopter - development history, photos, technical data

[cattletruck]

It would be interesting trying to operate a one-stick control if a hydraulic system failed. Fwd, aft, left, right wouldn't be too much of a problem on a lightie but up, down, twist could be quite challenging. If however it's all FBW then maybe a Playstation control would be better.

[Jack Carson]

MH-53E Hoist Controller

The MH-53E incorporated a limited 2 axis (FWD/AFT Left/Right) control on the hoist controller. This allowed the crew chief to position the aircraft over the load to be hoisted.

[albatross]

Doesn’t the S-64 Skycrane have a hand controller in the rear facing cockpit to aid in precision placing of long-line controls?

[whoknows idont]

What was the reasoning behind these trials? Having the left hand available at all times might be an advantage in a complex single pilot cockpit. But why get rid of the pedals?

I know two people that are dreaming of such a setup due to physical disabilities.

[JohnDixson]

Folks who did back seat flying in the CH-54 where the electric sidearm controller did pitch/roll and yaw would certainly concur with Ascend Charlie and IFMU. Still, the RAH-66 had those three on the sidearm, but you'll also note that the MHP S-92 FBW has electric pedals.