Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Helicopter drops large air conditioning unit onto Oakland street 10Jan2021

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Helicopter drops large air conditioning unit onto Oakland street 10Jan2021

Old 11th Jan 2021, 20:34
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: doghouse
Age: 65
Posts: 36
Our company's underslung load insurance is .01/lb, that's right, a penny per pound, so not as expensive as one might think for the helicopter company, unless your including the cost to their reputation.
Longdog is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2021, 03:56
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Not really. Most down town lifts with the crane are done on short strops. Part of it has to do with safety zones. We have to have a safety zone typically radius of 1.5 times the maximum eight of the aircraft. If you use a 100' line, that adds 150' radius to your safety zone, and that gets expensive when paying for the cops to close more streets.

Typically these are done at first light on Sunday mornings as there is less people around.


Not always, but in this case you may be right. FYI, that "operator" is a pilot and is able to control the whole aircraft from that seat.
Thank you Gordy for a sensible answer. Not being there I am not aware of local ordnances affecting these type of lifts. Although they appear to be lifting from an intersection, it is still like trying to fly in a Canyon in amongst those tall buildings. I still maintain that technically, the strop is WAY to short.

Incidentally, I am endorsed for sling loads, and lost my own helicopter and pilot, plus my business, because of a botched up sling load many years ago.


Old Farang is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2021, 07:45
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 8,238
Any Skycrane drivers out there who can say when the handover from the rear facing pilot to the front facing pilot happens on a job like this? I just wonder if it was at that crucial point that the release/failure happened.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2021, 10:46
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 290
... the strop is WAY to short ...
Normally I would agree, but in this case, they are using that hook that can swivel the load around to align it correctly on the roof, without having to use lines with people pulling the load to the correct position. They have 4 lines on the unit and making them too long, would probably twist them.
I think they knew what they were doing, regarding the rigging ... until the moment all went wrong, but I don't think the length of the strop is the problem.
Rotorbee is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2021, 17:30
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Iceland
Posts: 474
so if the result was just bent sheet metal I guess its ok
rotorrookie is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 01:31
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by rotorrookie View Post
so if the result was just bent sheet metal I guess its ok
Somehow I don't think the building engineers would agree with your assessment. Depending on what part of the system was dropped it might contain electrical and or pressurized equipment
Bksmithca is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 02:01
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Manitoba Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 180
Going by the video in post #1 , I say it was a release , not broken cable , because if you pause at 0:30 it shows the loop is intact .

Would there not be two separated cable ends if it broke ??



.


Arnie Madsen is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 11:39
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 54
Posts: 4,785
If you listen carefully there is a distinct change in the engine noise signature immediately after the load release. Sounds like one engine spooling up, so I wonder if there was a power loss and it was deliberately pickled?
212man is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 13:14
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brantisvogan
Posts: 759
Originally Posted by 212man View Post
If you listen carefully there is a distinct change in the engine noise signature immediately after the load release. Sounds like one engine spooling up, so I wonder if there was a power loss and it was deliberately pickled?
Could just be that the sudden loss of load and reduction in pitch resulted in a transient increase in engine rpm.
There was no discernable decrease in engine noise post-lift.
Bell_ringer is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 14:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the big blue planet
Posts: 948

Isn't one line broken?

skadi
skadi is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 14:52
  #31 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 12,988
From the video, it looks like everything from the aircraft cargo hook downwards fell away.

Hopefully there is a company procedure in place to preserve evidence regarding switch and guard positions. Very lucky it all fell away in possibly the one place where collateral damage was little or none.
ShyTorque is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:24
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: maidenhead, UK
Posts: 33
Facing backwards

Just idly thinking about flying a helicopter while facing backwards, presumably the controls are reversed so that pulling back on the cyclic actually makes the machine move forwards, and right cyclic makes it roll left.
nickp is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:32
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Beyond the black stump!
Posts: 1,244
This machine is equipped with an Anti-rotation device, the jettisonable part of which is attached directly to the Airframe Cargo Hook. This maintains the position of the load in relation to the helicopter and is used for precision construction placement. Prior to the first take-off of the day, the Cargo hook is physically tested in both electrical and manual release modes. Prior to flight, all hook releases are placed in the ARM mode. There is no means of determining if the Load is electrically released, other than functionally testing it after the event. In my experience, virtually all inexplicable Cargo Hook releases are caused by improper rigging setups, eyes hung up on the load beam, sitting on the keeper and slipping off (unless keeperless hooks), or lastly and very rarely, finger trouble.

In this instance, the jettisonable part of the anti-rotation device is released from the hook. It looks intact. There is no visible line or equipment failure.

These instances do happen, but pretty rarely for professional specialty lift operators. The fact that it is worthy of discussion is precisely because of its rarity and the fact it was captured on video.
Cyclic Hotline is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:46
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: moraira,spain-Norfolk, UK
Age: 78
Posts: 348
bksmith
Depending on what part of the system was dropped it might contain electrical and or pressurized equipment
I am in the middle of installing a small airco. Indoor unit contains some nitrogen. Outdoor unit
contains pressurised R290 (=propane). Large commercial units will be different or empty.
Too cold for me to work outside & verify.
esa-aardvark is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 19:55
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by esa-aardvark View Post
bksmith
Depending on what part of the system was dropped it might contain electrical and or pressurized equipment
I am in the middle of installing a small airco. Indoor unit contains some nitrogen. Outdoor unit
contains pressurised R290 (=propane). Large commercial units will be different or empty.
Too cold for me to work outside & verify.
esa-aardvark I understand that I was replying to Rotorookie in post #25 who commented that it was only sheet metal so it was ok.
Bksmithca is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 20:05
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 54
Posts: 4,785
Originally Posted by nickp View Post
Just idly thinking about flying a helicopter while facing backwards, presumably the controls are reversed so that pulling back on the cyclic actually makes the machine move forwards, and right cyclic makes it roll left.
Give it more thought Id suggest!
212man is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 21:51
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 3,781
212,,when operated by the`man in the boot`,it is logical that `his`. controls should be operated with reference to his position only......
sycamore is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 22:19
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 54
Posts: 4,785
Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
212,,when operated by the`man in the boot`,it is logical that `his`. controls should be operated with reference to his position only......
Yes, so they can still move in the same direction as the ones in the cockpit. By facing aft the cyclic has effectively been reversed anyway - his forward is the pilot's aft etc. Just think about sitting in that capsule, looking down and rearwards, and what you would do with the cyclic to hover. The aircraft doesn't know who is controlling it and what references are big used! The control inputs will be the same.
212man is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 00:41
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Posts: 768
You are right 212.
JohnDixson is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 07:12
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 8,238
As I have had explained to me - thanks John - the rear facing pilot doesn't have mechanical controls but has a system giving 10% AFCS authority.

Anyone familiar with the Sea King AHT (auxiliary hover trim) will understand the idea.

As with the AHT, there is a verbal handover of control with the forward pilot following through on the mechanical controls while the load is positioned/lifted and then taking control for the transition.

So it is pretty certain the forward pilot was flying when the load dropped off.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.