NPAS News 2021
Thread Starter
PANews That's absolutely staggering, the fact that we would pay France - who don't care if migrants leave their country to come here, in fact would possibly welcome it - and then because that didn't work throw more at it seems almost inconceivably stupid.
Just in case you haven't seen the "Must Read Tomes" thread, I just thought I'd put this here. I hope no-one minds.
My book about my time flying on police helicopters was published this week, there have been lots of great reviews and I figure that people on here might enjoy it.
Just in case you haven't seen the "Must Read Tomes" thread, I just thought I'd put this here. I hope no-one minds.
My book about my time flying on police helicopters was published this week, there have been lots of great reviews and I figure that people on here might enjoy it.
Last edited by J.A.F.O.; 23rd Jul 2021 at 07:23.
So, it’s that time of year again. Here are the stats for 2020/21. Overall, costs have increased by £1,872,147(not as much as 2019/20’s jump of £3.3M and Actioned Calls are down by 315(again not as much as 2019/20’s drop of 3855).
As always there are winners and losers. the biggest loser seems to be Bedfordshire. Their costs have increased year on year for the past 3 years while their Actioned Calls have gone down from 393 in 2018/19 to 188 in 2020/21.
Cheshire haven’t fared so well either. Paying $0.4M for less than half the Calls of last year, giving them a cost per call of £6050. However, Cambridgeshire top the cost per call chart at £9214.
Mind you, the cost per call that I arrive at is something of a mystery given the wide range in costs. From Cambridges’s £9214 down to Lincolnshire £1138. Especially given that talking to an NPAS pilot who said that the Forces get charged a flat rate of £2500 for a call, regardless of whether the aircraft is there for 5 minutes or an hour. Obviously other things are taken into account.
Hours flown by NPAS bases in support of Forces is up on 2019/20, 13,139 compared to 11,545. That’s largely due to the fact that I was only given 3.5 for the Met(North Weald) for 2019/20.
Anyway, make of the numbers what you will.
Oh, as for NPAS Annual Reports?? A quote from my latest FOI request:
As always there are winners and losers. the biggest loser seems to be Bedfordshire. Their costs have increased year on year for the past 3 years while their Actioned Calls have gone down from 393 in 2018/19 to 188 in 2020/21.
Cheshire haven’t fared so well either. Paying $0.4M for less than half the Calls of last year, giving them a cost per call of £6050. However, Cambridgeshire top the cost per call chart at £9214.
Mind you, the cost per call that I arrive at is something of a mystery given the wide range in costs. From Cambridges’s £9214 down to Lincolnshire £1138. Especially given that talking to an NPAS pilot who said that the Forces get charged a flat rate of £2500 for a call, regardless of whether the aircraft is there for 5 minutes or an hour. Obviously other things are taken into account.
Hours flown by NPAS bases in support of Forces is up on 2019/20, 13,139 compared to 11,545. That’s largely due to the fact that I was only given 3.5 for the Met(North Weald) for 2019/20.
Anyway, make of the numbers what you will.
Oh, as for NPAS Annual Reports?? A quote from my latest FOI request:
"Please note that NPAS no longer produce an Annual Report.”
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
Age: 76
Posts: 1,166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you MG.
Certainly some inconsistencies there..... that would make it difficult to write and sign off a sensible Annual Report I guess. If in doubt.... avoid it!
Based on those figures it is evident that in the past year the fixed wing unit has almost doubled the number of hours it flies each year. To put that in perspective though sorties are far longer than those of the rotary wing fleet and other bases where only a single helicopter is based are exceeding 1,000 hours pa. I guess, if it were properly resourced, we should expect the fixed wing fleet of four to be flying at least 3,000 hours by now and taking the pressure off the older helicopter fleet.
Some hope. Just when the P68R has found its feet [it took long enough] it seems the management has lost faith in the project and now there arn't enough pilots to get them in the air regularly enough to ramp up the hours and fill the gaps caused by the growing age of the rotary fleet.
Its like a stuck record.. stuck record .. stuck record..
Who knows one day we may be able to write about other news that is uplifting and smiley.... Not yet awhile I fear.
Certainly some inconsistencies there..... that would make it difficult to write and sign off a sensible Annual Report I guess. If in doubt.... avoid it!
Based on those figures it is evident that in the past year the fixed wing unit has almost doubled the number of hours it flies each year. To put that in perspective though sorties are far longer than those of the rotary wing fleet and other bases where only a single helicopter is based are exceeding 1,000 hours pa. I guess, if it were properly resourced, we should expect the fixed wing fleet of four to be flying at least 3,000 hours by now and taking the pressure off the older helicopter fleet.
Some hope. Just when the P68R has found its feet [it took long enough] it seems the management has lost faith in the project and now there arn't enough pilots to get them in the air regularly enough to ramp up the hours and fill the gaps caused by the growing age of the rotary fleet.
Its like a stuck record.. stuck record .. stuck record..
Who knows one day we may be able to write about other news that is uplifting and smiley.... Not yet awhile I fear.
Last edited by PANews; 24th Jul 2021 at 10:25. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: England
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PANews
Thank you MG.
Certainly some inconsistencies there..... that would make it difficult to write and sign off a sensible Annual Report I guess. If in doubt.... avoid it!
Based on those figures it is evident that in the past year the fixed wing unit has almost doubled the number of hours it flies each year. To put that in perspective though sorties are far longer than those of the rotary wing fleet and other bases where only a single helicopter is based are exceeding 1,000 hours pa. I guess, if it were properly resourced, we should expect the fixed wing fleet of four to be flying at least 3,000 hours by now and taking the pressure off the older helicopter fleet.
Some hope. Just when the P68R has found its feet [it took long enough] it seems the management has lost faith in the project and now there arn't enough pilots to get them in the air regularly enough to ramp up the hours and fill the gaps caused by the growing age of the rotary fleet.
Its like a stuck record.. stuck record .. stuck record..
Who knows one day we may be able to write about other news that is uplifting and smiley.... Not yet awhile I fear.
Certainly some inconsistencies there..... that would make it difficult to write and sign off a sensible Annual Report I guess. If in doubt.... avoid it!
Based on those figures it is evident that in the past year the fixed wing unit has almost doubled the number of hours it flies each year. To put that in perspective though sorties are far longer than those of the rotary wing fleet and other bases where only a single helicopter is based are exceeding 1,000 hours pa. I guess, if it were properly resourced, we should expect the fixed wing fleet of four to be flying at least 3,000 hours by now and taking the pressure off the older helicopter fleet.
Some hope. Just when the P68R has found its feet [it took long enough] it seems the management has lost faith in the project and now there arn't enough pilots to get them in the air regularly enough to ramp up the hours and fill the gaps caused by the growing age of the rotary fleet.
Its like a stuck record.. stuck record .. stuck record..
Who knows one day we may be able to write about other news that is uplifting and smiley.... Not yet awhile I fear.
It seems at the moment the Carr Gate helicopter is working the late/overnight shift and the fixed wing covers during the day up to midnight in the region. Something has to change as just one out of the four planes is ever active at any one time and is still not a 24hr asset after all of this time.
Some good stuff by Bryn Elliot in the latest Police Aviation News:
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Ac...August2021.pdf
Also scroll down to the Letters To The Editor section.
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Ac...August2021.pdf
Also scroll down to the Letters To The Editor section.
My Story "A long and Winding Beat" is available Through ISBN No 978-1-5272-8608-5 or via [email protected] it charts among other things the development of UK Police Aviation prior to the dreaded NPAS!
TF
TF
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by tigerfish
My Story "A long and Winding Beat" is available Through ISBN No 978-1-5272-8608-5 or via [email protected] it charts among other things the development of UK Police Aviation prior to the dreaded NPAS!
TF
TF
In the continuing downward spiral, some NPAS Bases were due to reduce from 24 hour ops down to 12 hours, from 15:00 to 03:00. The following quote is from September's PAN:
You can read more here:
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Ac...tember2021.pdf
Rearrange the following into a meaningful sentence. Brewery, up, a, couldn't, piss, organise, in, a.
The few remaining 24-hour bases operate two 12 hour shifts based around 0700 – 1900. The new shift planned for the reduced availability units was set at 1500 - 0300 daily and after a suitable period of consul- tation the police staff, the TFOs, work those hours and the base managers 0900 - 1700. The intransigent CAA decided that the pilots were not going to be working the 3 o’clock shift, the pilots would not be chang- ing their hours. They would continue to arrive at work as usual at 7am or 7pm. However, in a fast moving storyline it seems that they have managed to finally negotiate a face saving change of hours for the 12 hour units of 1300-0100, to commence this month.
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Ac...tember2021.pdf
Rearrange the following into a meaningful sentence. Brewery, up, a, couldn't, piss, organise, in, a.
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So Lippitts Hill is back...and there was one left. Such a big Hangar for one little G-POLD and former Boreham crew. Quick to revive a base location which is no longer needed, but when it come's to revival of actually needed bases like in the North West and Midlands where they are constantly having base availability issues... it is just quietly brushed under the carpet. The North West once had 6 bases and they've more than halved it to two, but only seems like Barton is the only one going now... is Hawarden dead? Not seen any activity from them in what seems like forever. The bases in Midlands being halved, Notts PCC fed up of poor service Nottinghamshire is receiving, but is another additional base active from 1300 - 0100 for the North Mids really going to be that beneficial? It's like NPAS think criminals only come out at specific times only and the rest of the time they are tucked up in bed. The midlands has a lot of urban space to cover to cut the bases to two is just inadequate. I'm not even bothering discussing about North East my local region as there is just no hope or certainty anymore. I don't even know what hour's Carr Gate operates anymore, Newcastle barely even fly anymore and as for Doncaster another wasted space would have been better keeping a Helicopter based at Humberside G-POLU maybe? If it's not dead. The South West are the only ones that seem like they are winning, all bases having the newest batch of the fleet and operating smoothly... it's not bad for some.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: the dark side
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’ll have a fiver on NPAS fixed wing coming under 2Excel ‘special missions’ operations in the foreseeable future.
Transfer of assets and staff, and then operating as a sub contractor with Police staff/observers seconded. Primary base still DSA but with temporary tactical remote basing as required.
Transfer of assets and staff, and then operating as a sub contractor with Police staff/observers seconded. Primary base still DSA but with temporary tactical remote basing as required.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Devon
Age: 68
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NPAS - when Yorkshire step down.
Heard from a pilot at the local airport, that the current base map may look different when West Yorkshire step down from running the show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ce_Air_Service
Will Carr Gate dissapear with it being so close to two other bases?
Any news on who will be taking over from West Yorks?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ce_Air_Service
Will Carr Gate dissapear with it being so close to two other bases?
Any news on who will be taking over from West Yorks?
Avoid imitations
Any news on who will be taking over from West Yorks?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
Age: 76
Posts: 1,166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Who would want to? I'd suggest it's a poisoned chalice.
It is easy to complain, and I do, but some alternative tactics that might work need to be considered. IF no operator of a NPAS neo is found and no section of industry feels able to stump up eye watering amounts to operate an oversized and failed operation that big money ticket may have to be further dismantled beyond delete The Met.
In theory this takes us back to before the start of NPAS. That underlines the level of failure NPCC are faced with, let us not forget where the whole badly thought through idea came from.
Police forces are gifted back their original airframes and bases and they either make individual bids to the Home Office for funding or to the potential industry bidders with a view to starting smaller more manageable operations, with or without new airframes, individual to start with and maybe as consortiums further down the road. You can probably still have central training and a pool of pilots and TFOs but there may be savings derived from getting rid of the management.
It may be that if the NPCC cannot get their act together and industry cannot afford to bail out the giant, fragmentation is the only way forward.
Tightgit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The artist formerly known as john du'pruyting
Age: 64
Posts: 792
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would like to make a point on your ‘where the idea came from, which is invariably overlooked in the effort to heap scorn on NPAS and W Yorks. (and this is not an attempt to defend either organisation). The idea for a single, national service came from a group of UEO’s who regularly attended the ACPO air support committee in lieu of their respective force or consortium ACPO officers, (who should have attended, but saw no career advantage in doing so, as it was too niche).
They were told to find a cheaper way of doing things ( and if I recall correctly, were seriously advised NOT to look at a national structure, as it would be too difficult to implement).
In spite of that they felt (and therefore recommended), that if they could make ‘X’ savings by regionalising, then they could ‘obviously’ make greater savings by nationalising! So we perhaps need to look a little closer to home. ‘We’ did this to ourselves.
They were told to find a cheaper way of doing things ( and if I recall correctly, were seriously advised NOT to look at a national structure, as it would be too difficult to implement).
In spite of that they felt (and therefore recommended), that if they could make ‘X’ savings by regionalising, then they could ‘obviously’ make greater savings by nationalising! So we perhaps need to look a little closer to home. ‘We’ did this to ourselves.
