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AAIB (H) UK November 2020

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AAIB (H) UK November 2020

Old 14th Nov 2020, 11:29
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Correct RINKER. Same for the R44 and R66 as well.

I suspect few actual helicopter pilots are the least bit concerned about falling out of the helicopter or anything like that. Unless you live in cold climes, certainly we've nearly all spent a great deal of time flying around with the doors completely off. Well before I took up with helicopters, when I was taking my fixed wing training my instructor would try to rattle me by opening his door on on take-off. Sadly his gambit failed because I was already a very experienced skydiver and did not really care much for doors on airplanes, either

The challenge can be more physical than intellectual for a low time pilot. I can reach every door in an R44 myself except for the left rear. But with a newly minted private certificate, to do that and keep flying straight and level might be quite difficult. It was for me!

To pile on with the aforementioned pax briefings, I also make all pax demonstrate their ability to open and reclose a door. This works great, as you know. But I also fly a lot of fair ride type concessions. When you fly 150 people in one day, sometimes even your very experienced and conscientious loaders make a mistake. Or perhaps your not so bright insta-passenger wonders what the shiny silver handle is for. I've never had a problem talking even the drunkest idiot through reclosing the door, but YMMV.

But I digress. This gent was a very low time pilot. His initial decision to solve the problem was a reasonable one. Very sad he got downwind, very, very sad he didn't handle that well either.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 11:39
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Originally Posted by Cylinder Head

4) Flights involving off airfield landings and "pleasure flying" are not the norm for PPL's and seeking advice from a more experienced pilot/instructor is always worthwhile.
Actually that probably describes 90% of the op's for newly minted, wealthy R44 owners in the US. The FAA says you are qualified to fly confined space landings with a private certificate, and pleasure flying is all you can do by definition.

Mind you I'm not entirely in disfavor of your thought. My own personal limits gauge was indicating near maximum so much after my private checkride that I rolled right into a commercial course of instruction. But not everyone feels that way, even if they should.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 12:06
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888
Actually that probably describes 90% of the op's for newly minted, wealthy R44 owners in the US. The FAA says you are qualified to fly confined space landings with a private certificate, and pleasure flying is all you can do by definition.
When you decide to spend your cash to fly recreationally, if on-field operations is all you intend doing, then you buy a fixed-wing.
When you go the rotary route, the intention is to squeeze it into as small a space as you're comfortable doing.
Sometimes it even fits.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 13:56
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aa777888 - no offence, but don´t you think proffesionalism is lacking a bit when you take "even the drunkest idiot" on board??
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 16:10
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Originally Posted by evil7
aa777888 - no offence, but don´t you think proffesionalism is lacking a bit when you take "even the drunkest idiot" on board??
There's a bit of hyperbole in my post. The op's I'm associated with do not allow, and I personally don't allow, people who are grossly inebriated as passengers. However, depending on the type of event, the smell of alcohol is often noticeable. I.e. the average person, having a good time, with a little bit of Etoh inside them, is capable of operating the door. Not really any different than when flying a commercial airline. No drinks allowed on board or served in flight, though!

Continuing with this digression...I worry a great deal more when I am asked to host someone on board with mental disabilities. Mildly inebriated folks are relatively predictable. I have no idea what those with mental disabilities will do. In this PC day and age it is very difficult to gracefully refuse service to such. I have standing orders to put them in the back seat, preferably with a guardian of some sort. The Robinson T-bar cyclic is just too vulnerable to allow that kind of unpredictable or potentially impulsive behavior to be near it. Even with the precaution of the back seat, if things start to get weird the flight gets cut short.

Maximum digression: the passenger that I hate the most is the bully father who is making his scared-to-death kid go. This can be hard to detect on the ground, but in the air it is always evident. Those flights get cut short, too.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 19:09
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Originally Posted by aa777888
There's a bit of hyperbole in my post. The op's I'm associated with do not allow, and I personally don't allow, people who are grossly inebriated as passengers. However, depending on the type of event, the smell of alcohol is often noticeable. I.e. the average person, having a good time, with a little bit of Etoh inside them, is capable of operating the door. Not really any different than when flying a commercial airline. No drinks allowed on board or served in flight, though!

Continuing with this digression...I worry a great deal more when I am asked to host someone on board with mental disabilities. Mildly inebriated folks are relatively predictable. I have no idea what those with mental disabilities will do. In this PC day and age it is very difficult to gracefully refuse service to such. I have standing orders to put them in the back seat, preferably with a guardian of some sort. The Robinson T-bar cyclic is just too vulnerable to allow that kind of unpredictable or potentially impulsive behavior to be near it. Even with the precaution of the back seat, if things start to get weird the flight gets cut short.

Maximum digression: the passenger that I hate the most is the bully father who is making his scared-to-death kid go. This can be hard to detect on the ground, but in the air it is always evident. Those flights get cut short, too.
aa777888,

Totally agree about keeping an eye on pax for signs of excessive alcohol or anything else taken in excess! Saw a pax refused a transfer flight in St Lucia because he was clearly very drunk. As far as been not very different to flying on a commercial airline I can’t seem to remember the last time I saw a pax helping close a door... not sure what commercial airline you fly with?

As for you cutting flights short, if you are flying 150 pax per day in your R44 your tour flights are probably a 10 minute trip, you can’t cut it much shorter than that!
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 19:49
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
As far as been not very different to flying on a commercial airline I can’t seem to remember the last time I saw a pax helping close a door...
Damn, you guys are literal! I mean in terms of being denied boarding. Show up at the gate staggering and too bad, so sad. Show up a little loud and happy and on you go.
As for you cutting flights short, if you are flying 150 pax per day in your R44 your tour flights are probably a 10 minute trip, you can’t cut it much shorter than that!
Wanna bet? When the line is short 10 loads an hour, including turn-around time. When the line is long 12 loads an hour. When someone is freaking out (or freaking me out!) it might be a two minute flight. I'm still amazed that people will pay $30 to stand in line for 30 minutes or even longer for a 4 minute flight. But they all seem to love it. It's little different than at Disneyworld I suppose. Stand in line all day for a 4 minute ride.
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 21:51
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aa777888,

Of course we are literal, educated with Queens English is always a good start in life!

As for that quick tour work, you must have the patience of a Saint and the eyes of a hawk... how many checks do you carry out on a busy day?
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Old 14th Nov 2020, 22:11
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Originally Posted by Cylinder Head
Very unfortunate incident that should have been completely unavoidable.
So you're saying it was inevitable...?
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 11:13
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
aa777888,

Of course we are literal, educated with Queens English is always a good start in life!
In the immortal words of Korben Dallas: I only know two languages, English, and Bad English!

As for that quick tour work, you must have the patience of a Saint and the eyes of a hawk... how many checks do you carry out on a busy day?
Probably 40 or 50 per day, per pilot at a busy event. Half that at a weak event. We generally bring two pilots, or if there are two helicopters three pilots, sometimes four. That way everyone can stay safely rested, fed and watered. First check is "who are they bringing me?" The loaders are good (many are student pilots), and the pilots not flying help, but sometimes the fat guy tries to sit in front, or too many fat people at once or, to the previous point, did you seriously think that guy was not too impaired? Doors, belts, "Hey person in the front seat, are you a pilot? No? Then don't touch this or that, please, thanks, ha ha!" Scan while you wind it up. Go. Return. Wind it down. Help sort headsets, get a swig of water while the loaders do their thing. Last check is "How am I feeling, how was my last touchdown, is it time to ask for relief?" Repeat. Fly your patterns (more than one so as to break up your noise footprint). Stay in sync with the second helicopter if there is one, meaning you're flying when the other is loading. On one hand you are a machine and trying to attain a perfection of safe, efficient and repeatable movement, perhaps a bit like slinging trees or ag work. All honor to the loaders, they are an absolutely critical part of the ballet, both efficiency and safety-wise, as important as any pilot. On the other hand every load is different, and the cargo does wear on you sometimes. Screaming children. Old folks. Young men ("Sorry dudes, this isn't the Red Bull helicopter). Young ladies (more screaming). Date night. For most loads you throw in a couple of steep turns at the end and it's all they remember from the flight, and they go and tell everyone how awesome it was
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 14:14
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888
Probably 40 or 50 per day, per pilot at a busy event.
With that number of lifts, how do you manage staying within max take off power limits?
After all, they didn't plan on that many movements per hour in the POH.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 14:36
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
With that number of lifts, how do you manage staying within max take off power limits?
After all, they didn't plan on that many movements per hour in the POH.
You know, that's a really good question, BR! I don't actually know the answer. I can't remember there being a duty cycle limit for 5 minute take-off power in the POH. A quick Google search turned up this thread right here in "Rotorheads" (and which I actually posted in!) In that thread there never was a definitive answer, other than to say it is an engine life limit and not a MRGB limit.

I can tell you that we don't fly above max. continuous, in the 5 minute take-off power regime, for very long. 30 seconds or a minute, maybe. However, there is no question that the aircraft is worked hard! As an owner of one of them I can tell you that I am concerned about making the full 2200 hours on the engine.

These op's are also rough on the aircraft in other ways. Dents, scuffs and scratches everywhere, inside and out. General cosmetic wear and tear. After the first season of this the eight year old carpet looked twelve years old. I ripped it out and put in a very nice utility floor kit from RAMM Aero. It added 7lbs to the empty weight but I'm pretty sure there was nearly 7lbs of dirt in that carpet! Everyone who sees it loves it, and it is a dream to keep clean, 5 minutes with a vacuum and a damp cloth
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