AAIB (H) UK November 2020
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AAIB (H) UK November 2020
After take-off, pilot realises door is not shut, inadvertently makes downwind approach and it gets away from him: here - sounds like classic distraction you reckon?
Avoid imitations
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Site not available......the CAA shut the door on me!
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Sorry Mr Torque, you’re only allowed to look at reports featuring 109s. Perhaps this is a new feature - you can only read the report if you fly the type!
Last edited by Hilico; 12th Nov 2020 at 14:19.
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And another 'What could possibly go wrong taking people for a joyride when you are a low time pilot?' accident - Oh, that's what could go wrong, you get so badly distracted that you crash!
Originally Posted by [email protected]
And another 'What could possibly go wrong taking people for a joyride when you are a low time pilot?' accident - Oh, that's what could go wrong, you get so badly distracted that you crash!
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It's absolutely amazing to me that the quality of the average Robinson pilot is such that Robinson has produced no less than two related "safety notices" that cover this exact situation, 41 and 44, https://robinsonheli.com/robinson-safety-notices/
To me these sort of safety notices are the equivalent of "coffee is hot".
That said, when I was still struggling to tune a radio without bobbling about, having a door open definitely required very careful consideration. I've never had a problem talking a pax through this the few times I screwed up and let it happen, but there are pax and then there are pax. It's really too bad that this pilot made a very reasonable decision to land and sort things out only to suffer from a mistake doing exactly that
To me these sort of safety notices are the equivalent of "coffee is hot".
That said, when I was still struggling to tune a radio without bobbling about, having a door open definitely required very careful consideration. I've never had a problem talking a pax through this the few times I screwed up and let it happen, but there are pax and then there are pax. It's really too bad that this pilot made a very reasonable decision to land and sort things out only to suffer from a mistake doing exactly that
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Firstly this should serve as a reminder as to why passengers should not be left to get in and out of a helicopter with rotors running unless they have professional assistance or are very experienced. There was no time pressure here either. Letting amateurs do doors, seat belts and headsets amidst the noise, downdraft and perceived urgency of a running helicopter is a recipe for disaster, as proven here.
Secondly I think it would be a very good idea if pilots were more aware of just how big a drama a door coming open on the helicopters they fly is. And what they should do about it. How often is this taught? I suspect rarely. And the flight manual should say this too. With greater knowledge I suspect this pilot would not have been as stressed, which lead him to become disoriented.
And then of course there is the big error of just not recognising he was making a downwind approach that was doomed to failure. Had he been monitoring his airspeed he would have seen it decay excessively and hopefully wondered why and recovered some to enable him to go around for take two into wind.
Secondly I think it would be a very good idea if pilots were more aware of just how big a drama a door coming open on the helicopters they fly is. And what they should do about it. How often is this taught? I suspect rarely. And the flight manual should say this too. With greater knowledge I suspect this pilot would not have been as stressed, which lead him to become disoriented.
And then of course there is the big error of just not recognising he was making a downwind approach that was doomed to failure. Had he been monitoring his airspeed he would have seen it decay excessively and hopefully wondered why and recovered some to enable him to go around for take two into wind.
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I’m in now....the site in question was having a technical glitch.
Regarding the accident in the report... The answer is always fly the aircraft.
But as the saying goes, “When you’re up to your ar£e in alligators, it’s important to remember you’re actually there to drain the swamp”.
Thankfully, being married, I’ve had years of practice in avoiding distractions. My wife often chats away nineteen to the dozen when she’s my car passenger. She expects answers in great detail. Not only that, she reads a newspaper which she spreads out across the handbrake and gear lever. In years gone by I might have politely asked her to move it. These days I just grab it out of my way and say “OI!” She fumbles then drops her phone on the dashboard whilst talking very loudly to her mother. At critical times, such as joining busy traffic on the motorway she suddenly exclaims things in a panicked voice such as “Oh, NO! Did I leave the hair straighteners switched on?” Etc.
I mostly just ignore her. Great training.
Regarding the accident in the report... The answer is always fly the aircraft.
But as the saying goes, “When you’re up to your ar£e in alligators, it’s important to remember you’re actually there to drain the swamp”.
Thankfully, being married, I’ve had years of practice in avoiding distractions. My wife often chats away nineteen to the dozen when she’s my car passenger. She expects answers in great detail. Not only that, she reads a newspaper which she spreads out across the handbrake and gear lever. In years gone by I might have politely asked her to move it. These days I just grab it out of my way and say “OI!” She fumbles then drops her phone on the dashboard whilst talking very loudly to her mother. At critical times, such as joining busy traffic on the motorway she suddenly exclaims things in a panicked voice such as “Oh, NO! Did I leave the hair straighteners switched on?” Etc.
I mostly just ignore her. Great training.
I always instructed pax how to close and open seatbelts and doors. Demonstrated it and got them
to show they could do it. Advised them if door unlatched it was no big issue as not pressurised like
an airliner and didn’t allow loose objects in cockpit. This was taught to me by my mentor an experienced CPLH.
R
to show they could do it. Advised them if door unlatched it was no big issue as not pressurised like
an airliner and didn’t allow loose objects in cockpit. This was taught to me by my mentor an experienced CPLH.
R
Most of us will have experienced a problem with doors coming open in flight and managed to sort it out without too much drama (whether through luck or skill).
Unfortunately, such low time pilots are unlikely to have had it happen before and it is unlikely to have been covered in PPL training.
The accident was entirely preventable - through training of the pax or the person closing the doors as Rotorspeed and RINKER say - (every passenger in a military aircraft has to have been given an aircraft abandonment brief including opening and closing of the doors).
The fact that the pilot was overwhelmed by the situation was just another item in the list of human factors that so often lead to private pilots reaching their capacity limits with no-one to save them from basic airmanship failures.
Fortunately just minor injuries and a red face this time.
Unfortunately, such low time pilots are unlikely to have had it happen before and it is unlikely to have been covered in PPL training.
The accident was entirely preventable - through training of the pax or the person closing the doors as Rotorspeed and RINKER say - (every passenger in a military aircraft has to have been given an aircraft abandonment brief including opening and closing of the doors).
The fact that the pilot was overwhelmed by the situation was just another item in the list of human factors that so often lead to private pilots reaching their capacity limits with no-one to save them from basic airmanship failures.
Fortunately just minor injuries and a red face this time.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Unfortunately, such low time pilots are unlikely to have had it happen before and it is unlikely to have been covered in PPL training.
.
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People don't seem to realise that even though the door is unlocked and open a bit, they couldn't fall out. They are strapped in, and the airflow outside is enough to push the door back against them and it would take a big effort to get out the door and jump off the skids.
The lower static air pressure compared to cabin pressure makes the door open a bit, but the dynamic pressure against the partly-open door won't let it get much further.
The lower static air pressure compared to cabin pressure makes the door open a bit, but the dynamic pressure against the partly-open door won't let it get much further.
People don't seem to realise that even though the door is unlocked and open a bit, they couldn't fall out. They are strapped in, and the airflow outside is enough to push the door back against them and it would take a big effort to get out the door and jump off the skids.
The lower static air pressure compared to cabin pressure makes the door open a bit, but the dynamic pressure against the partly-open door won't let it get much further.
The lower static air pressure compared to cabin pressure makes the door open a bit, but the dynamic pressure against the partly-open door won't let it get much further.
there have been 22’s downed by departing doors impacting the main rotor.
PPL training is supposed to include pax briefings, it should be a preflight item so that basic ingress/egress, harnesses, doors and emergency procedures are covered.
Had a rear door on a 206 pop open once. As briefed the guy gave it a good slam shut. No drama.
As everyone says it's good to know nobody was seriously injured . Interesting to see this report and I wonder if it will result in any action by the CAA. In the gyroplane world we had one tragic fatal accident when a door came open on a low time student pilot and they mandated that all UK Magni M24's be fitted with door open visual alarm and the manf also included an inhibit on the rotor tachometer to ensure the P1 is well aware of the doors being secure prior to pre-rotation and taking off . Having all of that I still make sure passengers know how to check the door is latched shut / how to open it in an emergency (once on the ground) and pre takeoff checks include hatches and harness's locked with an elbow push on the doors to be sure.
BG
BG
Hi Bell ringer. I think that’s why on the R22 part of check A said pins must be on door hinges
to stop it coming away from aircraft in the event of inflight opening. I did always check them.
R
to stop it coming away from aircraft in the event of inflight opening. I did always check them.
R
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Very unfortunate incident that should have been completely unavoidable. Fortunately no serious injuries and I am sure that the pilot has learned a great deal from the experience.
My observations are that simple basic airmanship could have prevented the factors lining up, long before the unfortunate development of a Vortex Ring state.
For what its worth, I have the following questions:-
1) How extensive was the legally required pre flight briefing? Delivering it to passengers when rotors running, is too late and never satisfactory.
2) Why was the door's poor latching not noticed during pre take off checks? It was a front door, so the handle would have been visible had it been checked or the passenger properly briefed.
3) Why were dual controls installed when the passenger was not a qualified instructor? The only reason is the provide the opportunity "to let a passenger have a go." Foolish!
4) Flights involving off airfield landings and "pleasure flying" are not the norm for PPL's and seeking advice from a more experienced pilot/instructor is always worthwhile.
The comments about training pilots how to deal with an open door are valid, we do not cover such incidents as a matter of course BUT don't tell me the pilot was not training to ensure that all doors were securely shut as part of the pre take off checks.
This is precisely the sort of accident that comes about with low time private pilots taking on challenges without adequate preparation. It is what terrifies me with this insane Wingly idea as referred to in the posts above. Commercial Pilots and Operators spend a fortune getting qualified to take on such flights and are subject to excessive, draconian oversight by the authorities and yet PPL's have suddenly been given a method to fly in this manner with absolutely no support, control or oversight.
My observations are that simple basic airmanship could have prevented the factors lining up, long before the unfortunate development of a Vortex Ring state.
For what its worth, I have the following questions:-
1) How extensive was the legally required pre flight briefing? Delivering it to passengers when rotors running, is too late and never satisfactory.
2) Why was the door's poor latching not noticed during pre take off checks? It was a front door, so the handle would have been visible had it been checked or the passenger properly briefed.
3) Why were dual controls installed when the passenger was not a qualified instructor? The only reason is the provide the opportunity "to let a passenger have a go." Foolish!
4) Flights involving off airfield landings and "pleasure flying" are not the norm for PPL's and seeking advice from a more experienced pilot/instructor is always worthwhile.
The comments about training pilots how to deal with an open door are valid, we do not cover such incidents as a matter of course BUT don't tell me the pilot was not training to ensure that all doors were securely shut as part of the pre take off checks.
This is precisely the sort of accident that comes about with low time private pilots taking on challenges without adequate preparation. It is what terrifies me with this insane Wingly idea as referred to in the posts above. Commercial Pilots and Operators spend a fortune getting qualified to take on such flights and are subject to excessive, draconian oversight by the authorities and yet PPL's have suddenly been given a method to fly in this manner with absolutely no support, control or oversight.