Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Bristow emergency landing

Wikiposts
Search
Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Bristow emergency landing

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 25th Sep 2020, 14:47
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Abroad
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bristow emergency landing

https://www.aftenbladet.no/lokalt/i/...-trygt-pa-sola
ODEN is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 18:10
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
There doesn't seem to be a date on that story. Can anyone paste in the full story?
HeliMannUK is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 18:16
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: same planet as yours
Posts: 541
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Don't have the full story, but digging a bit deeper gives this as date:
"datePublished":"2020-09-25T14:05:55Z"
DIBO is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2020, 06:26
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: KoN
Age: 68
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
AIBN News bulletin

The essence of a brief statement last night from the NSIA (previously AIBN) is something like this:

On Friday the 25. of September the crew of a S-92A, LN-ONQ on a return flight to Sola from West Elara, got warning that the oil pressure in the MGB had dropped. Later , as the oil temperature started rising, the crew transmitted a MAYDAY call and continued the descent to 200'. They prepared for a ditching if the pressure drop should continue that far. The landing at Sola was uneventful and they were escorted to parking by the emergency services.

The AIBN arrived the same evening and started their investigation. No causes for the event has so far been establised.
GenuineHoverBug is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2020, 06:57
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Anyone have any more info?

Presume they didnt goto MAN COOL so makes sense the temp increased.
helicrazi is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2020, 15:47
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: states
Age: 68
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
92

Originally Posted by helicrazi
Anyone have any more info?

Presume they didnt goto MAN COOL so makes sense the temp increased.
https://verticalmag.com/news/norwegi...tion-incident/

rotormatic is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 13:36
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 696
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
Amazingly lucky. Once again reminding that S92A gearbox is a deathtrap...it cannot actually run dry. Recall their Part 29 certification run-dry "extremely remote" clause basis was on the oil leak occurring in the cooler circuit, and the mitigation was to bypass the cooler loop.

If you lose oil from the MGB itself for any other reason (i.e. filter mount like Cougar, or literally any other main case penetration) then you're hosed.

8 minutes.
SansAnhedral is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 15:16
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,317
Received 622 Likes on 270 Posts
Seems odd that just losing 4 litres out of the normal 30 litres should cause such a nasty problem?
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 15:34
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: N of 49th parallel
Posts: 199
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I suspect the oil leak was a consequence rather than the cause.

Mechanical problem in the input module, leading to lots of heat being generated, leading to oil seals between modules being compromised, as well as heating up the MGB oil.

Only speculation on my part.
Apate is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 16:13
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,317
Received 622 Likes on 270 Posts
That makes sense Apate but raises the question of the design of the input module.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 17:24
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by SansAnhedral
Amazingly lucky. Once again reminding that S92A gearbox is a deathtrap...it cannot actually run dry. Recall their Part 29 certification run-dry "extremely remote" clause basis was on the oil leak occurring in the cooler circuit, and the mitigation was to bypass the cooler loop.

If you lose oil from the MGB itself for any other reason (i.e. filter mount like Cougar, or literally any other main case penetration) then you're hosed.

8 minutes.
Death trap? What rubbish. Turned out alright didnt it. They had a caution, not a warning, the OIL OUT is land immediately, they obviously didnt have that and they had sufficient pressure to continue flight to land.
helicrazi is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 17:58
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 696
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by helicrazi
Death trap? What rubbish. Turned out alright didnt it. They had a caution, not a warning, the OIL OUT is land immediately, they obviously didnt have that and they had sufficient pressure to continue flight to land.
Simply because this particular incident didn't lead to an actual full oil-out condition since they were already on approach (it would only have been a matter of time with the leak as described) doesn't change the issue that the S92A MGB cannot operate without oil for more than approximately 8 minutes.

The fact that it holds Part 29 certification despite this is mind boggling, particularity since there have been enough incidents of leaks from the MGB case to make the "extremely remote" 10^−7 occurrence clause statistical nonsense.
SansAnhedral is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 18:13
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by SansAnhedral
Simply because this particular incident didn't lead to an actual full oil-out condition since they were already on approach (it would only have been a matter of time with the leak as described) doesn't change the issue that the S92A MGB cannot operate without oil for more than approximately 8 minutes.

The fact that it holds Part 29 certification despite this is mind boggling, particularity since there have been enough incidents of leaks from the MGB case to make the "extremely remote" 10^−7 occurrence clause statistical nonsense.
Weren't they on their way back? So it could have been losing oil for the previous 2 hours or so... it was hardly a catastrophic event.

The gearbox has a good record.
helicrazi is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 19:57
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by SansAnhedral
Amazingly lucky. Once again reminding that S92A gearbox is a deathtrap...it cannot actually run dry. Recall their Part 29 certification run-dry "extremely remote" clause basis was on the oil leak occurring in the cooler circuit, and the mitigation was to bypass the cooler loop.

If you lose oil from the MGB itself for any other reason (i.e. filter mount like Cougar, or literally any other main case penetration) then you're hosed.

8 minutes.
over a million hours in the sky, not bad for a deathtrap.
HeliMannUK is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 20:58
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 696
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by helicrazi
The gearbox has a good record.
What planet do you live on?

Originally Posted by HeliMannUK
over a million hours in the sky, not bad for a deathtrap.
I'm sure that's comforting to the families of the 17 victims of Cougar 91, or the luckier CHC crew the year before.

But its still an order of magnitude below the number of hours required (10^7) without a single loss of MGB case lube incident to verify its certification loophole basis.
SansAnhedral is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 21:01
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,317
Received 622 Likes on 270 Posts
If the gearbox is so good, how come a loss of between 10 and 15% of the oil led to such massive overheating of the input module? 214 degrees C!
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 21:32
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by SansAnhedral
What planet do you live on?



I'm sure that's comforting to the families of the 17 victims of Cougar 91, or the luckier CHC crew the year before.

But its still an order of magnitude below the number of hours required (10^7) without a single loss of MGB case lube incident to verify its certification loophole basis.
The cougar crew unfortunately didnt help that situation and a false understanding led them to continue flying.
helicrazi is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2020, 21:34
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 514
Received 21 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by [email protected]
If the gearbox is so good, how come a loss of between 10 and 15% of the oil led to such massive overheating of the input module? 214 degrees C!
Because a drop in pressure triggers the cooler bypass... they could have chosen to reverse the bypass and cool the oil, they obviously knew where the issue was and it wasnt the cooler.
helicrazi is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2020, 09:22
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,317
Received 622 Likes on 270 Posts
Because a drop in pressure triggers the cooler bypass... they could have chosen to reverse the bypass and cool the oil, they obviously knew where the issue was and it wasnt the cooler.
so if the problem isn't the cooler, why not reverse the bypass? If the leak is in the no 1 input module its going to keep leaking regardless isn't it? Why risk overheating the engine inputs as well?

Not a 92 driver so just keen to understand.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2020, 09:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by [email protected]
so if the problem isn't the cooler, why not reverse the bypass? If the leak is in the no 1 input module its going to keep leaking regardless isn't it? Why risk overheating the engine inputs as well?

Not a 92 driver so just keen to understand.
I think the purpose of the bypass is to save as much oil as possible in the event of a leak. Hot oil is better than no oil. I can’t remember what the capacity of the cooler is, I’m on leave but it takes a fair amount.
tonkaplonka is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.