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Helicopter missing in the Med

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Helicopter missing in the Med

Old 9th May 2020, 04:05
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man View Post
.... I'm not sure why you would single out FBW?..........

Ahhhhhh.......maybe because he had read this ..........?
.
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Old 12th May 2020, 04:56
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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News reports now that it was a “buzz job”, while the military continues to destroy its credibility with useless bafflegab. GreyHorizonsHeli called it, both the malicious military obfuscation repeated again by some pinhead, and the Occam’s razor likely cause.

https://nationalpost.com/news/nation...6-c521d21142f4
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Old 12th May 2020, 07:42
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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It will be very sad if this turns out to be another 'Catterick Puma' accident caused by wazzing and zooming at low level (this time over the sea).
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Old 13th May 2020, 15:27
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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The way that information is being released over this accident is a little concerning. As time passes, it is now apparent that the helicopter was in sight of the ship and crew and they witnessed the crash. Now it appears that the helicopter was engaged in a high-speed low-level pass;

Quote... "Multiple defence sources tell CBC News that at the time of the crash, the Cyclone was conducting a high-speed, low-level photo pass of HMCS Fredericton, a manoeuvre known in the air force as a "Brownie Run" after a NATO standard camera.

Without warning, the helicopter suddenly pitched forward and "flew into the ocean," said the sources, who were granted anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation."...

The official focus is on the flight control system and software, but let's not get too far without ensuring an investigation that starts with including what exactly was going on at the time.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cyc...rces-1.5566656

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Old 13th May 2020, 16:33
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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If there is a vulnerability in the Flight Control System the proximity to the mobile RadHaz that is a warship could have been a trigger.
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Old 13th May 2020, 17:06
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
If there is a vulnerability in the Flight Control System the proximity to the mobile RadHaz that is a warship could have been a trigger.
Not impossible given the relatively low number of fleet hours for the type, but I'd assume this to be a pretty low percentage based on the similarity to the FCS of the baseline S92, as well as the lessons learned from the extensive EMI/RFI testing/hardening done for the VH variant.

Is this just a spitball or do you have a data point in mind?
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Old 13th May 2020, 18:32
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OttoRotate View Post
Not impossible given the relatively low number of fleet hours for the type, but I'd assume this to be a pretty low percentage based on the similarity to the FCS of the baseline S92, as well as the lessons learned from the extensive EMI/RFI testing/hardening done for the VH variant.

Is this just a spitball or do you have a data point in mind?
CH-148 = FBW, S92 not FBW if I recall it correctly. Not that similar systems I guess.


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Old 13th May 2020, 19:03
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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And since this aircraft had the interim specification, what do we know about the EMC/EMI spec on interim aircraft?
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Old 13th May 2020, 19:09
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I've made a quick search but couldn't find if the final version of the VH-92A will have FBW or conventional flight controls. Does anybody know?
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Old 13th May 2020, 19:58
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy. View Post
I've made a quick search but couldn't find if the final version of the VH-92A will have FBW or conventional flight controls. Does anybody know?
The military version H-92 is supposed to have FBW and I guess the VH-92 is a derative from H-92.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/superhawk/
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Old 14th May 2020, 10:25
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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"Without warning, the helicopter suddenly pitched forward and "flew into the ocean," said the sources, who were granted anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation."..."

Of course the pitching forward could have been caused by the aircraft coming into contact with the sea. To the observer it would be difficult to know which came first, nose down or contact, if the aircraft was indeed operating a few feet above the surface at high speed.
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Old 14th May 2020, 12:49
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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as well, the mirage effect of the horizon, depending on the conditions could skew not only the witness' perception, but also the pilots I would assume.


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Old 14th May 2020, 13:13
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AAKEE View Post
The military version H-92 is supposed to have FBW and I guess the VH-92 is a derative from H-92.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/superhawk/

The VH-92 model designation could be a little misleading.

From a LM release:

"The VH-92A aircraft is based on Sikorsky’s successful and FAA-certified S-92A commercial aircraft, which recently surpassed one million flight hours. The S-92A aircraft, assembled in Coatesville, Pennsylvania, is being modified to include integration of government-defined missions systems and an executive interior."

(Bold applied by me.)

https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2017...361.1500608027

The CH-148 main rotor system differs significantly from the S-92A in that the former has an automatic blade fold system and increased rotor diameter, among other differences. To summarize, the VH-92 essentially starts life as a "green" S-92A.

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Old 14th May 2020, 17:31
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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A lot more V than H then, whereas H-92/CH-148 is a quite different animal.
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Old 18th May 2020, 15:54
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently the media is starting to realize that the information being supplied was a little disingenuous.

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/op...pdates-450994/
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Old 18th May 2020, 17:57
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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CH,sorry to report that at least here in South Florida,the Chronicle/Herald requires a subscription before one can read the article.
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Old 18th May 2020, 18:15
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JohnDixson View Post
CH,sorry to report that at least here in South Florida,the Chronicle/Herald requires a subscription before one can read the article.
for some reason it says the message is too short to post, so I’m writing this! ( I guess it doesn’t recognise text in quotes?)

SCOTT TAYLOR



On April 29 an RCAF Cyclone helicopter crashed in the Ionian Sea while returning to HMCS Fredericton from a training mission. Word of this tragedy was first reported by Greek news outlets and it was soon circulating on Canadian social media platforms.

Most mainstream media reporters were leery that this story could in fact be ‘fake news’ as the Greek media were reporting the downed helicopter to be a Sikorsky Sea King, which are no longer in service with the RCN.

When DND did issue a formal statement on April 30, Canadians were advised that “One member of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) was killed … and five other members remain missing following an accident involving a Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) CH-148 Cyclone helicopter.”

We were also informed that “HMCS Fredericton and NATO allies continue to search for the other five members of the helicopters crew.” Details on the cause of the crash were unknown and media were told the crew of HMCS Fredericton “had lost contact with the helicopter” prior to the crash.
When this story did break in Canada, with official confirmation and complete with the name of the individual killed and the names of the five “confirmed missing” it resonated throughout the military community like a wildfire. The scenario painted was that of a mystery crash sparking a major search and rescue operation by the NATO naval task group.

Commentators pondered the vastness of the Ionian Sea posing a challenge for the searchers, and social media posters prayed for the rescue of the five missing members.

Late in the afternoon on May 1, a full 48 hours after the crash, DND issued an updated statement wherein the ‘confirmed missing’ were now “presumed deceased.” No longer was it a ‘search and rescue’ operation, it had transitioned into a ‘search and recovery’ task.

As a nation united in grief Canada mourned the loss of Captains Brenden Ian MacDonald, Kevin Hagen, Maxime Miron-Morin, Sub-Lieutenants Abbigail Cowbrough, Matthew Pyke and Master-Corporal Matthew Cousins.

Once the initial shock of this tragedy subsided, additional details of the crash began to surface. It turns out that the Cyclone was in sight of the Fredericton at the time of the accident. In full view in fact as the helicopter was allegedly doing a low level flypast as part of a photo-shoot when it suddenly and violently plunged into the waves.

DND has since confirmed that eyewitness testimony will be part of their investigation into the cause of the crash. With this being the case one has to wonder why the Canadian media, myself included, were being fed such deceptive details in the initial 48 hours.

The Fredericton did not ‘lose contact’ with the helicopter if the crew actually watched it crash. The search site would have involved a few hundred square feet of ocean, not the entire Ionian Sea.

What makes no sense is why someone in the DND communication chain-of-command would have felt it a good idea to change the details to add some unnecessary mystery to the incident, not to mention generating false hope among friends and family of the five ‘confirmed missing.’

There would be no need to cover up the fact that the helicopter was doing a photo pass at the time, as everyone familiar with RCN operations knows this is a routine exercise.

I understand that DND would want to have complete certainty before announcing the death of the crew to the public. However if from the outset we were told the Cyclone crash was witnessed by sailors aboard Fredericton and no survivors were seen, that would have been more accurate.

In this era of ‘fake news’ by malign actors we need our official sources to provide us with accurate details. In this case the DND was inexplicably off the mark
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Old 18th May 2020, 19:23
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks,212. Nothing new there. By now one would expect the data and voice recordings had been reviewed by knowledgable folks.
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Old 18th May 2020, 21:00
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JohnDixson View Post
Thanks,212. Nothing new there. By now one would expect the data and voice recordings had been reviewed by knowledgable folks.
Pretty sure they have. Along with the ship to aircraft radio transmissions.
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Old 18th May 2020, 23:44
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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JD...

Are there any extraordinary procedures or precautions employed by pilots during an exercise like this, e.g. low altitude cruise flight, especially over water?

Would they likely be in a coupled mode, or hand flying?

DS
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