Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Aerial photography below 500ft AGL in the US

Wikiposts
Search
Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Aerial photography below 500ft AGL in the US

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 5th Mar 2020, 10:58
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aerial photography below 500ft AGL in the US

What's the procedure in the US to ask the FAA for permission for helicopter-based aerial photography below 500ft above-ground-level in areas where the 500ft rule (from 91.119) would be broken? I don't need to do this I'm just curious how much process, risk assessment and record keeping there is around this?
FairWeatherFlyer is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2020, 12:12
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asia
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1 word.....


DRONES


Customers will use drones. Cheaper. Quieter. Safer.
Sikpilot is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2020, 14:50
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: California
Posts: 751
Received 29 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by FairWeatherFlyer
What's the procedure in the US to ask the FAA for permission for helicopter-based aerial photography below 500ft above-ground-level in areas where the 500ft rule (from 91.119) would be broken? I don't need to do this I'm just curious how much process, risk assessment and record keeping there is around this?
You don't need permission below 500ft in a helicopter :-)
Robbiee is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2020, 15:55
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,959
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by FairWeatherFlyer
What's the procedure in the US to ask the FAA for permission for helicopter-based aerial photography below 500ft above-ground-level in areas where the 500ft rule (from 91.119) would be broken? I don't need to do this I'm just curious how much process, risk assessment and record keeping there is around this?
Read para (d):

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA;
Gordy is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2020, 07:02
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,985
Received 33 Likes on 14 Posts
Reg changes like that are the kind of thing that really should come up on a flight review.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2020, 07:43
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,959
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by rudestuff
Reg changes like that are the kind of thing that really should come up on a flight review.
This reg has not changed that I know of in at least 30 years. We have always been allowed below 500'.
Gordy is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2020, 21:34
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Sikpilot
1 word.....


DRONES


Customers will use drones. Cheaper. Quieter. Safer.
Horses for courses. Drones simply can't accomplish everything that can be done with a helicopter, and vice versa.
MikeNYC is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 16:26
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Gordy The text of that regulation doesn't help to understand it unless you understand precisely what's meant by "complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA"
FairWeatherFlyer is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 16:33
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bit before my time, but didn't the Twilight Zone accident change risk assessment and have a lasting effect on aerial photography?
FairWeatherFlyer is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 18:56
  #10 (permalink)  
LRP
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by FairWeatherFlyer
Gordy The text of that regulation doesn't help to understand it unless you understand precisely what's meant by "complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA"
It means that if the FAA has prescribed any routes or altitudes, then the operator must comply with them. If not, the operation may go below 500 ft as long as the operation does not pose hazards to persons or property on the surface.
LRP is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 21:48
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: yes
Posts: 368
Received 20 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by LRP
It means that if the FAA has prescribed any routes or altitudes, then the operator must comply with them. If not, the operation may go below 500 ft as long as the operation does not pose hazards to persons or property on the surface.
Previous wording was less, I mean more ambiguous:
"(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator."
JimEli is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2020, 22:58
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,959
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by FairWeatherFlyer
Gordy The text of that regulation doesn't help to understand it unless you understand precisely what's meant by "complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA"
It means exactly that. If the FAA has published a route, for example, New York has specific routes for helicopters, or if the FAA control tower gives you a specific routing or altitude, then you must follow that. If not, then you can fly any altitude you wish, 20 feet if you wish.

Originally Posted by FairWeatherFlyer
Bit before my time, but didn't the Twilight Zone accident change risk assessment and have a lasting effect on aerial photography?
Ahh yes, the Dorcey Wingo accident. When working on movie sets or even for documentaries etc one can be issued a waiver. Where I work we have a set waiver that allows us to go as close to people/property as needed to get the shot under certain circumstances. We have listed pilots, aircraft and have to produce a "production call list" along with each shot and the FAA will issue a specific waiver. All people inside the "shot area" must be signatory to the waiver etc. Details here: Form 7711

Dorcey wrote a good book BTW,
Rise and Fall of Captain Methane Rise and Fall of Captain Methane
Gordy is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 14:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Gordy
It means exactly that. If the FAA has published a route, for example, New York has specific routes for helicopters, or if the FAA control tower gives you a specific routing or altitude, then you must follow that. If not, then you can fly any altitude you wish, 20 feet if you wish.



Ahh yes, the Dorcey Wingo accident. When working on movie sets or even for documentaries etc one can be issued a waiver. Where I work we have a set waiver that allows us to go as close to people/property as needed to get the shot under certain circumstances. We have listed pilots, aircraft and have to produce a "production call list" along with each shot and the FAA will issue a specific waiver. All people inside the "shot area" must be signatory to the waiver etc. Details here: Form 7711

Dorcey wrote a good book BTW, Rise and Fall of Captain Methane
Additionally, one form of a 7711 waiver often comes in the form of a Motion Picture Manual, which, once approved, can simplify the waiver process and FSDO notification for frequent wavered work. See FSIMS Document Viewer
MikeNYC is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 16:38
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,959
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by MikeNYC
Additionally, one form of a 7711 waiver often comes in the form of a Motion Picture Manual, which, once approved, can simplify the waiver process and FSDO notification for frequent wavered work. See FSIMS Document Viewer
Yes, I have a motion picture manual----guess I did not make that clear----you have to have the manual with procedures listed and approved and then get a waiver for each production based upon your manual.
Gordy is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 17:52
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
@Gordy that was more directed at the OP. I figured you're fully aware of the Motion Picture Manual.
MikeNYC is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 00:58
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,959
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Cool

Originally Posted by MikeNYC
@Gordy that was more directed at the OP. I figured you're fully aware of the Motion Picture Manual.
Figured as much---it was early when I responded....
Gordy is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.