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Fukushima Prefecture AW139 crash land, no immediatefatalities

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Fukushima Prefecture AW139 crash land, no immediatefatalities

Old 2nd Feb 2020, 16:57
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Originally Posted by SASless
Heroics? Dang....you mean there was a School within two hundred miles of the crash site....that they gallantly sacrificed themselves to avoid?
they really put their heart into it SAS.
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 01:38
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Originally Posted by Sir Korsky
better shot of T/R here. 3 stripes and possibly no drive on impact. Agree with SAS, brilliant outcome with no flames or deaths.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2...al-police.html
Another better shot!

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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 01:53
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Mature aircraft, HUMS, a T/R failure would be an extremely rare event. We should be hearing something soon from Leonardo. Noooby?

Really odd that there was no warning at all, or was it a judgement call to keep flying despite some hint because of the heart and 5 min from landing? Sim training, the way the box is programmed there is lots of incentive to keep the speed up, they may have still got some speed on after it disappeared out of view on the video. When we were gods gift instructing we could do 0 airspeed autos from 500’ with the H300. Didn’t think it was possible with a 139 -min auto speed I believe is 40 but without a T/R even 100 feels better for that extra keel effect. Maybe HK piloto “RM” can chime in with what worked for him.

Last edited by malabo; 3rd Feb 2020 at 02:47.
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 02:21
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Originally Posted by tottigol
Happy that they all survived, hopefully another heart can be located soon.
A bit off-topic, organ donation and transplant rates are far lower in Japan than most developed countries. It's due to longstanding religious/cultural reasons and outdated laws that have only recently started to change.

Re: another comment about 5 police being aboard- the helo was part of the prefecture police force. Some aboard may have been there to provide ground transport of the heart at both ends of the flight.


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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 05:07
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The 5 police would have included the 2 pilots.
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 11:15
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Originally Posted by malabo
...Maybe HK piloto “RM” can chime in with what worked for him.
RM had some airspeed when the TRGB departed the scene, and, by all accounts, a useful left seater that all contributed to the successful outcome.
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 11:45
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
RM had some airspeed when the TRGB departed the scene, and, by all accounts, a useful left seater that all contributed to the successful outcome.
Yes, he was at about 70 kts and 3-400 ft I think (been a few years since he recounted the story)
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 12:08
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The coey was a newbie with poor English and a lap full of paperwork, who failed to react when asked at least 3 times to switch off both engines....
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 19:27
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Arghh right. The left seater didn't become effective until it was time to give the abandon ship order, in Chinese. I trust at least the paperwork was in perfect order.
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 20:47
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One must ensure the paperwork is correct otherwise the Accident Investigators shall call you out for any errors.....so give the guy a break!
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:26
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TR failure?

Pilot tried well and very good outcome. Was the heart recipient a fatality?
Good thing it was not over a city.
Could have been a CATASTROPHE ?

to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:36
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Originally Posted by AnFI
TR failure?

Pilot tried well and very good outcome. Was the heart recipient a fatality?
Good thing it was not over a city.
Could have been a CATASTROPHE ?

to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing.
Google suggests they postponed the operation pending a decision on whether to wait for another donor or try an alternative treatment. There is also a lot of information that says heart operations rose by about 14% after the power station disaster!
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 19:00
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The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:16
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Originally Posted by 400hover
The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
of course they didn’t have a dual hydraulic failure! They would all be dead!
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:36
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Originally Posted by 400hover
The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
to partially address one of your concerns in a more affable, friendly and less pompous fashion, yes, the gear on the 139 is held up by hydraulic pressure and any significant pressure loss will cause gravity to lower, but not lock the gear.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 00:12
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Let's look at the video. Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. The reasons for the potential low Nr condition are unknown but the low nose attitude is indicative of an attempt to regain airspeed while disk authority is borderline effective. The successful arrest of the RoD to survivability may have been based on flare increasing Nr, hence tail rotor thrust and overall reduction in descent.

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Old 7th Feb 2020, 01:26
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Originally Posted by Scorpygixxer
Let's look at the video. Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. The reasons for the potential low Nr condition are unknown but the low nose attitude is indicative of an attempt to regain airspeed while disk authority is borderline effective. The successful arrest of the RoD to survivability may have been based on flare increasing Nr, hence tail rotor thrust and overall reduction in descent.
How almost zero airspeed "flare" could increase NR?
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 05:23
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Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position.
how do you come to that conclusion?

Seems more likely that following a TR thrust failure, he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed.

If you can find a video of an RAF Wessex over a lake in Wales that suffered a TR drive failure, you will see an identical spiral descent.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:02
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Seems more likely that following a TR thrust failure, he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed.
The question is, since he was in cruiseflight, why did he reduce speed almost to zero?

skadi
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:13
  #40 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by skadi
The question is, since he was in cruiseflight, why did he reduce speed almost to zero?

skadi
Once the fuselage yaws 90 degrees to the direction of travel, the drag increases exponentially and you're an involuntary test pilot and might have little say in what the aircraft does, at least for a few seconds. With a rapidly rotating fuselage, pitch may become roll and roll may become pitch.
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