Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Fukushima Prefecture AW139 crash land, no immediatefatalities

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Fukushima Prefecture AW139 crash land, no immediatefatalities

Old 2nd Feb 2020, 16:57
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Age: 51
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Heroics? Dang....you mean there was a School within two hundred miles of the crash site....that they gallantly sacrificed themselves to avoid?
they really put their heart into it SAS.
Sir Korsky is online now  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 01:38
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ......
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Sir Korsky View Post
better shot of T/R here. 3 stripes and possibly no drive on impact. Agree with SAS, brilliant outcome with no flames or deaths.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2...al-police.html
Another better shot!

Dexus is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 01:53
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 607
Mature aircraft, HUMS, a T/R failure would be an extremely rare event. We should be hearing something soon from Leonardo. Noooby?

Really odd that there was no warning at all, or was it a judgement call to keep flying despite some hint because of the heart and 5 min from landing? Sim training, the way the box is programmed there is lots of incentive to keep the speed up, they may have still got some speed on after it disappeared out of view on the video. When we were gods gift instructing we could do 0 airspeed autos from 500’ with the H300. Didn’t think it was possible with a 139 -min auto speed I believe is 40 but without a T/R even 100 feels better for that extra keel effect. Maybe HK piloto “RM” can chime in with what worked for him.

Last edited by malabo; 3rd Feb 2020 at 02:47.
malabo is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 02:21
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SNA
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
Happy that they all survived, hopefully another heart can be located soon.
A bit off-topic, organ donation and transplant rates are far lower in Japan than most developed countries. It's due to longstanding religious/cultural reasons and outdated laws that have only recently started to change.

Re: another comment about 5 police being aboard- the helo was part of the prefecture police force. Some aboard may have been there to provide ground transport of the heart at both ends of the flight.


kenish is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 05:07
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
The 5 police would have included the 2 pilots.
212man is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 11:15
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,152
Originally Posted by malabo View Post
...Maybe HK piloto “RM” can chime in with what worked for him.
RM had some airspeed when the TRGB departed the scene, and, by all accounts, a useful left seater that all contributed to the successful outcome.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 11:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
RM had some airspeed when the TRGB departed the scene, and, by all accounts, a useful left seater that all contributed to the successful outcome.
Yes, he was at about 70 kts and 3-400 ft I think (been a few years since he recounted the story)
212man is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 12:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pizza hut
Posts: 629
The coey was a newbie with poor English and a lap full of paperwork, who failed to react when asked at least 3 times to switch off both engines....
griffothefog is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 19:27
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,152
Arghh right. The left seater didn't become effective until it was time to give the abandon ship order, in Chinese. I trust at least the paperwork was in perfect order.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 20:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,603
One must ensure the paperwork is correct otherwise the Accident Investigators shall call you out for any errors.....so give the guy a break!
SASless is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:26
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 838
TR failure?

Pilot tried well and very good outcome. Was the heart recipient a fatality?
Good thing it was not over a city.
Could have been a CATASTROPHE ?

to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing.
AnFI is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:36
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
Originally Posted by AnFI View Post
TR failure?

Pilot tried well and very good outcome. Was the heart recipient a fatality?
Good thing it was not over a city.
Could have been a CATASTROPHE ?

to gain airspeed in a rotating helicopter ideally the cyclic needs to move in the cockpit at (negatively) the same rotational rate, ie constant bearing.
Google suggests they postponed the operation pending a decision on whether to wait for another donor or try an alternative treatment. There is also a lot of information that says heart operations rose by about 14% after the power station disaster!
212man is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 19:00
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hoverland
Posts: 68
The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
400hover is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:16
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,615
Originally Posted by 400hover View Post
The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
of course they didn’t have a dual hydraulic failure! They would all be dead!
212man is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:36
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Age: 51
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by 400hover View Post
The right MLG is out. Maybe the crew had time to lower it when they realize something was coming up. Or can it come out after they crash? Or maybe they had an dual hydraulic failure..?? (don't think so...)
to partially address one of your concerns in a more affable, friendly and less pompous fashion, yes, the gear on the 139 is held up by hydraulic pressure and any significant pressure loss will cause gravity to lower, but not lock the gear.
Sir Korsky is online now  
Old 7th Feb 2020, 00:12
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ireland
Age: 43
Posts: 9
Let's look at the video. Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. The reasons for the potential low Nr condition are unknown but the low nose attitude is indicative of an attempt to regain airspeed while disk authority is borderline effective. The successful arrest of the RoD to survivability may have been based on flare increasing Nr, hence tail rotor thrust and overall reduction in descent.

Scorpygixxer is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2020, 01:26
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Scorpygixxer View Post
Let's look at the video. Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position. The reasons for the potential low Nr condition are unknown but the low nose attitude is indicative of an attempt to regain airspeed while disk authority is borderline effective. The successful arrest of the RoD to survivability may have been based on flare increasing Nr, hence tail rotor thrust and overall reduction in descent.
How almost zero airspeed "flare" could increase NR?
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2020, 05:23
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,693
Right hand spiral descent at very low speed is symptomatic of a low Nr condition with low tail rotor effectiveness and a relatively high collective position.
how do you come to that conclusion?

Seems more likely that following a TR thrust failure, he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed.

If you can find a video of an RAF Wessex over a lake in Wales that suffered a TR drive failure, you will see an identical spiral descent.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:02
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the big blue planet
Posts: 931
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Seems more likely that following a TR thrust failure, he has lowered the lever to reduce tq reaction and lowered the nose to gain speed.
The question is, since he was in cruiseflight, why did he reduce speed almost to zero?

skadi
skadi is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:13
  #40 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 12,574
Originally Posted by skadi View Post
The question is, since he was in cruiseflight, why did he reduce speed almost to zero?

skadi
Once the fuselage yaws 90 degrees to the direction of travel, the drag increases exponentially and you're an involuntary test pilot and might have little say in what the aircraft does, at least for a few seconds. With a rapidly rotating fuselage, pitch may become roll and roll may become pitch.
ShyTorque is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.