Kobe Bryant killed in S76 crash
"Helicopter diverted from usual route"
"Kobe Bryant’s final flight, minute by minute"
https://www.latimes.com/sports/liveb...h-in-calabasas
(Matt Stiles & Priya Krishnakumar / Los Angeles Times)
"Kobe Bryant’s final flight, minute by minute"
https://www.latimes.com/sports/liveb...h-in-calabasas
(Matt Stiles & Priya Krishnakumar / Los Angeles Times)
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To me this looks like something that could be explained by a medical incident. They were on track before a sudden hard left deviation. Also supporting that is the crash came right after the ATC controller advised they were too low for flight following, however, that ATC controller had asked a question seconds earlier that went unanswered by the pilot. After several seconds of no answer he just goes ahead and tells him that he can't get following. So there is some reason a previously quickly responding pilot did not respond to the last questions asked. Either work overload or medical problem.
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Here's today's NTSB briefing near the scene.
Board Member Jennifer Homendy described the holding and special VFR clearances for the accident flight. She said that shortly before the crash the pilot said he was climbing to avoid a cloud layer. When ATC asked what the pilot planned to do there was no reply. The helicopter was observed climbing to 2300 feet MSL and then making a left descending turn to impact with terrain. The impact crater was at 1085 feet elevation. The debris field is 500-600 feet long on both sides of a hill.
There was no FDR or CVR and they were not required to be installed. An iPad with Foreflight was recovered and possibly more personal electronic devices will be available for analysis. The FBI is on scene strictly to assist in gathering perishable evidence, there is no criminal investigation.
Ms. Homendy clarified that when the controller said that the aircraft was too low for flight following it meant that they were too low for ATC to provide flight following assistance, not presumably too low for terrain avoidance.
She said that she's very confident that the NTSB will determine the cause of the accident.
Board Member Jennifer Homendy described the holding and special VFR clearances for the accident flight. She said that shortly before the crash the pilot said he was climbing to avoid a cloud layer. When ATC asked what the pilot planned to do there was no reply. The helicopter was observed climbing to 2300 feet MSL and then making a left descending turn to impact with terrain. The impact crater was at 1085 feet elevation. The debris field is 500-600 feet long on both sides of a hill.
There was no FDR or CVR and they were not required to be installed. An iPad with Foreflight was recovered and possibly more personal electronic devices will be available for analysis. The FBI is on scene strictly to assist in gathering perishable evidence, there is no criminal investigation.
Ms. Homendy clarified that when the controller said that the aircraft was too low for flight following it meant that they were too low for ATC to provide flight following assistance, not presumably too low for terrain avoidance.
She said that she's very confident that the NTSB will determine the cause of the accident.
Last edited by Airbubba; 28th Jan 2020 at 16:57.
Well, here are positive quotes from those who knew the pilot, per NYT article:“Pilots who gathered at the school on Monday declined to give their names but described [PILOT] as an experienced and meticulous operator. They said they were perplexed by the accident.
“Super cautious, super smart,” one of the instructors said. “I can’t see him making this kind of mistake.”
“Super cautious, super smart,” one of the instructors said. “I can’t see him making this kind of mistake.”
If only errors of judgment were just made by a-holes, it would be so much easier to spot and prevent.
Many of us have lost people to accidents who we loved, trusted and respected and still can't fathom how it could have possibly happened to them.
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More about the pilot from today's LA Times article on the victims (who have not been officially identified by the LA Medical Examiner-Coroner's Office).
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-crash-victims
[redacted]When flight student Darren Kemp heard that Kobe Bryant had died in a helicopter crash, his heart sank. He knew that his flight teacher, [redacted], was Bryant’s private pilot.
“He doesn’t let anyone else fly him around but [redacted],” Kemp said.
Kemp recalled [redacted] as a dedicated, caring instructor who wanted to help his students succeed. A video that Kemp filmed in the cockpit showed [redacted] in sunglasses and a mint-green headset, grinning and doing a mock salute at the camera.
When Kemp got divorced, he said, [redacted] helped him through it. When Kemp felt like dropping out, [redacted] encouraged him, telling him: “If you love this, then nothing will stop you.”
“It turns out, he was right,” Kemp said.
[redacted] was a veteran pilot, well-versed in the topography and weather patterns of the Los Angeles basin, said colleague Kurt Deetz, who with [redacted] flew Bryant from 2014 to 2016.
He was reliable and not known for risky flying, said Deetz, who knew him as “Big [redacted].”
“He loved calling himself that,” Deetz said. “He wasn’t big.”
[redacted], he said, “was the type of guy you’d call at 3 a.m. with a problem — anything, this or that — and he’d help you out.”
Even though poor weather forced him to swing northeast of his usual flight path, Sunday’s route — from John Wayne Airport to Camarillo — would have been very familiar to [redacted], Deetz said.
“It wasn’t a question of him not knowing the neighborhood,” he said.
“He doesn’t let anyone else fly him around but [redacted],” Kemp said.
Kemp recalled [redacted] as a dedicated, caring instructor who wanted to help his students succeed. A video that Kemp filmed in the cockpit showed [redacted] in sunglasses and a mint-green headset, grinning and doing a mock salute at the camera.
When Kemp got divorced, he said, [redacted] helped him through it. When Kemp felt like dropping out, [redacted] encouraged him, telling him: “If you love this, then nothing will stop you.”
“It turns out, he was right,” Kemp said.
[redacted] was a veteran pilot, well-versed in the topography and weather patterns of the Los Angeles basin, said colleague Kurt Deetz, who with [redacted] flew Bryant from 2014 to 2016.
He was reliable and not known for risky flying, said Deetz, who knew him as “Big [redacted].”
“He loved calling himself that,” Deetz said. “He wasn’t big.”
[redacted], he said, “was the type of guy you’d call at 3 a.m. with a problem — anything, this or that — and he’d help you out.”
Even though poor weather forced him to swing northeast of his usual flight path, Sunday’s route — from John Wayne Airport to Camarillo — would have been very familiar to [redacted], Deetz said.
“It wasn’t a question of him not knowing the neighborhood,” he said.
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Since none of the victims have been officially identified according to the coroner I guess that we just have to pretend until SASless gives his blessing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, Danny's trainset etc., etc., etc...
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Just wanted to to share this article from NYMag, as it is well-written, contains a plausible and comprehensive possible explanation:
(Including comments about the decision not to switch to IFR, the apparent 180 just before the crash, etc)
/intelligencer/2020/01/kobe-bryants-helicopter-likely-succumbed-to-common-danger.html
(I'm not allowed to post links yet, so add nymag . com to the beginning, minus the spaces).
(Including comments about the decision not to switch to IFR, the apparent 180 just before the crash, etc)
/intelligencer/2020/01/kobe-bryants-helicopter-likely-succumbed-to-common-danger.html
(I'm not allowed to post links yet, so add nymag . com to the beginning, minus the spaces).
BD - there is a place for condolences but this is a professional pilot forum with a discussion about how a fellow professional pilot came to grief on a Californian hillside - it is important because when good guys make errors, it sends a strong message to the rest of us never to drop our standards or take those extra risks.
Lawprof - that 'expert witness' was very sure the helicopter was hovering or flying very slowly - not consistent with the debris field at the accident site.
Lawprof - that 'expert witness' was very sure the helicopter was hovering or flying very slowly - not consistent with the debris field at the accident site.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Lawprof - that 'expert witness' was very sure the helicopter was hovering or flying very slowly - not consistent with the debris field at the accident site.
It's been explained to me by an adjunct law professor (kinda like a pilot who is a 'consultant'
) that it doesn't matter that much whether expert testimony is correct. It matters whether the testimony is persuasive to a judge and jury.
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What is far more interesting in the NTSB briefing is the fact that they retrieved an iPad with fore flight on it , so that may act as a mini FDR as far as parameters are concerned , and a mention that the last recording show a 4000f/min drop, whether that is a recording aberration or a fact would probably be the focus of the investigation as it could perhaps indicate a mechanical failure.
We would all like to believe that in fatal accidents something catastrophic and outside of their control occurred. As unpalatable as it is to accept, that is rarely the case.
Fully operational aircraft, operating within minima, do not leave smoking holes in the ground and large debris fields.
Perhaps more information will come to light, but without flight recorders and telemetry from SSR and ground receivers, all you are left with is inaccurate low level data from FR24.
Anyone that isn't emotionally connected to the occupants would be hard-pressed to consider this anything other than another avoidable weather related accident.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Lawprof - that 'expert witness' was very sure the helicopter was hovering or flying very slowly - not consistent with the debris field at the accident site.
Helicopters produce sound in a somewhat asymmetrical manner, without seeing it you'd have to have some talent to work out which way it was facing and how fast it was moving.
Even the best eyewitnesses are unreliable, let alone an earwitness.
"A trained pilot can stay right-side up by paying attention to the instruments on his panel. But at low altitude over Calabasas, Bryant’s pilot also had another problem. He knew that the ground ahead was rising, and he couldn’t see it. To avoid hitting it, he could keep climbing, and hope that he’d gain altitude faster than the ground underneath him. Or he could slow to a stop and descend vertically until he popped out of the bottom of the cloud."
No, he couldn't. If he had tried to decelerate to a hover whilst IMC, he would have had some serious aircraft stability issues.
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I've seen what a seagull can do to a windscreen in the past, and after checking on the Californian wildlife there are some very large geese in California.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._of_California
Did any locals see any large birds in that area which may have caused a crash, or may have caused a medical incident if there had been a strike?
If the pilot knew the area well he would have known the heights of the surrounding terrain, and I would be surprised he descended so fast while IMC?. Seems odd he was climbing to then make a steep 4000ft/min descent from what I read above?
How old was the pilot? If he did have a heart attack or other medical problem would the post mortem find the evidence after a crash fire?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._of_California
Did any locals see any large birds in that area which may have caused a crash, or may have caused a medical incident if there had been a strike?
If the pilot knew the area well he would have known the heights of the surrounding terrain, and I would be surprised he descended so fast while IMC?. Seems odd he was climbing to then make a steep 4000ft/min descent from what I read above?
How old was the pilot? If he did have a heart attack or other medical problem would the post mortem find the evidence after a crash fire?
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Did any locals see any large birds in that area which may have caused a crash, or may have caused a medical incident if there had been a strike?
One thing from the "perfect witness" testimony posted earlier; it is not because he could not see the helicopter above him that it was IMC in fog. It could have been above it, VMC , and the hill side could have been obscured ( Mt Erebus syndrome for those old enough to remember)
It might seem like that to a layman but it's not actually that accurate:
"A trained pilot can stay right-side up by paying attention to the instruments on his panel. But at low altitude over Calabasas, Bryant’s pilot also had another problem. He knew that the ground ahead was rising, and he couldn’t see it. To avoid hitting it, he could keep climbing, and hope that he’d gain altitude faster than the ground underneath him. Or he could slow to a stop and descend vertically until he popped out of the bottom of the cloud."
No, he couldn't. If he had tried to decelerate to a hover whilst IMC, he would have had some serious aircraft stability issues.
"A trained pilot can stay right-side up by paying attention to the instruments on his panel. But at low altitude over Calabasas, Bryant’s pilot also had another problem. He knew that the ground ahead was rising, and he couldn’t see it. To avoid hitting it, he could keep climbing, and hope that he’d gain altitude faster than the ground underneath him. Or he could slow to a stop and descend vertically until he popped out of the bottom of the cloud."
No, he couldn't. If he had tried to decelerate to a hover whilst IMC, he would have had some serious aircraft stability issues.
Helicopters, like aeroplanes, maintain a degree of stability due to the airflow passing over their aerofoil surfaces. For an aeroplane, the lack of airflow over the wing will lead to stalling (and severe instability). The lack of airflow over a rotor disk won't lead to a stall in the same sense but the aircraft becomes much less stable and relatively harder to control.
Therefore, all IFR rated helicopters have a Minimum IF speed (ie a minimum speed that must be maintained whilst in IMC. Depending on the type, this is normally 50 to 60kts. I don't know that the VMinI speed for a S76B is though, I'm afraid).