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Hill Helicopters HX50

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Hill Helicopters HX50

Old 9th May 2024, 16:54
  #1641 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pittsextra
what else is the rationale other than a delivery date
Its an experimental/amateur built aircraft. Keep in mind quite a few of the slot holders are private individuals who look at this from strictly a recreational use vs a commercial use. They have time and money on their side. Regardless, E/AB’rs tend to march to a different drum beat than conventional aviators if that makes sense.
Do you have any E/AB experience?
Originally Posted by Pittsextra
Peanut gallery aside if you compare an other recent light helicopter from Kopter to Guimbal the timeline / expectations here not withstanding the “kit” nature
Except you can’t compare it to the Kopter or Guimbal as they are certified aircraft. Apples and oranges. And E/AB aircraft come in different flavors so they’re not all considered “kits.” And what Hill is attempting on the E/AB side has never been done at this level.

As to the timeframe, I think more of the slot holders are along for the ride vs a customer waiting at the end. They know the drill. As I mentioned, people who follow E/AB are right there with Hill during this build process which they themselves will be personally involved in as their aircraft goes down the production line. Hardly the same as with any certified aircraft production buyer.

But if you want a comparison, look to the KX50s current competition in the E/AB world at around $100,000 USD out the door depending on method of build...
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Wrench 1 - can you name one?
No. That’s why its ground breaking and innovative in the E/AB world vs just another helicopter in the certified world. A lot of people don’t realize its this difference that is behind the support and money.



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Old 9th May 2024, 19:09
  #1642 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wrench1
They have time and money on their side.
Considering wealth requirement which ties in age, I don't think they have too much time on their side?
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Old 9th May 2024, 19:24
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Funny you talk about the "wealth" requirement when this would be the cheapest new turbine helicopter on the market, if it succeeds. And the best-selling airplane in the world is the Cirrus SR22 which costs $1 million.
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Old 9th May 2024, 20:13
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr
Funny you talk about the "wealth" requirement when this would be the cheapest new turbine helicopter on the market, if it succeeds. And the best-selling airplane in the world is the Cirrus SR22 which costs $1 million.
Pretty sure it’s not the SR22! C172 maybe?
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Old 9th May 2024, 21:09
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I was talking specifically about new factory-built aircraft. Obviously there are tons of 50-year-old airplanes flying around.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2024...lanes-in-2023/

In 2023 there were 355 SR22T sales and 142 SR22 sales, compared to 180 Cessna 172s.

Last edited by CGameProgrammerr; 9th May 2024 at 21:16. Reason: corrections
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Old 9th May 2024, 21:16
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr
How many new 172s do you see? I was talking specifically about new factory-built aircraft. Obviously there are tons of 50-year-old airplanes flying around.
then refine your definition
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Old 9th May 2024, 22:07
  #1647 (permalink)  
 
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In case you forgot, the HX50 is a brand new helicopter. There are obviously a huge number of people that can afford it because over 350 people paid $1 million or more for a new SR22T in 2023 alone. Why are you talking about the number of people buying 50-year-old Cessnas? That has nothing to do with anything. My point is there are a lot of private owner-operators that can afford it and that, yes, are young enough to still be fit to fly.
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Old 10th May 2024, 05:27
  #1648 (permalink)  
 
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It's not a brand new helicopter because it still doesn't exist.
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Old 10th May 2024, 06:02
  #1649 (permalink)  
 
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Ponzi scheme!
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Old 10th May 2024, 07:44
  #1650 (permalink)  

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Let’s hope it doesn’t turn out to be an “Eliocopter”…
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Old 10th May 2024, 09:48
  #1651 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wrench1
Its an experimental/amateur built aircraft. Keep in mind quite a few of the slot holders are private individuals who look at this from strictly a recreational use vs a commercial use. They have time and money on their side. Regardless, E/AB’rs tend to march to a different drum beat than conventional aviators if that makes sense.
Do you have any E/AB experience?
I hear you and of course some guys just like to build aircraft for its own sake - and all of that is great. E/AB experience for myself not as as a builder but as an owner. I am from the UK and have owned what would be known as E/AB aerobatic fixed wing aircraft but my helicopter experience both piston and turbine is with certified aircraft but that is more a nature of the UK. Here E/AB aircraft are more commonly microlights dealt with by the BMAA [British microlight assoc] or the LAA [Light aircraft assoc.]. Now whilst the LAA could look after rotary, the CAA took over the oversight of gyroplanes after a lot left smoking holes at the end of the last century and the Rotorway kit has been the only option here for some time - so helicopter wise in the UK its not a well trodden path and I'm not sure where the experience is if we talk authority, certainly I think the BMAA or LAA might struggle currently to adopt the HX50.

Originally Posted by wrench1
Except you can’t compare it to the Kopter or Guimbal as they are certified aircraft. Apples and oranges. And E/AB aircraft come in different flavors so they’re not all considered “kits.” And what Hill is attempting on the E/AB side has never been done at this level.
And in a way that likely raises its own yellow flag [if not red]. Of course in the US will be the market of interest but as a first step I am very surprised they didn't merely adopt a motor that existed - even if it was to prove the other elements of the aircraft, be that dynamics, system or operation.

Originally Posted by wrench1
As to the timeframe, I think more of the slot holders are along for the ride vs a customer waiting at the end. They know the drill. As I mentioned, people who follow E/AB are right there with Hill during this build process which they themselves will be personally involved in as their aircraft goes down the production line. Hardly the same as with any certified aircraft production buyer.
And that is great and is as you highlight obviously one element of the attraction for some. Indeed I fully expect some "owners" are more expert in the HX50 than the company and those guys almost love the struggle more than the solution. Personally I just like flying and whilst enjoy the engineering I'm not an engineer. I prefer steam gauges and looking out of the window than a glass panel and pretending to be in a 747 [might need to update my airline reference] and not for a moment suggesting you are in the category described here. I guess the thing is I'd just want an aircraft I can fly sooner than later rather than a technology demonstrator that I bring to life.


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Old 10th May 2024, 17:30
  #1652 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pittsextra
if we talk authority, certainly I think the BMAA or LAA might struggle currently to adopt the HX50.
Its my understanding Hill has received initial okay from the FAA, TCCA, UKCAA, and CASA the HX50 build process will meet the definition of an amateur-built aircraft. Since the FAA, TCCA, and CASA already have an established E/AB regulatory system it should be seamless for the HX50. No clue on the UKCAA.

Originally Posted by Pittsextra
I am very surprised they didn't merely adopt a motor that existed
Cost. Off the shelf engines are priced at the certified levels. I think one of the reasons Kopter ended up a Leonardo product was they sourced too many OTC components to include the engine vs in-house design/procurement. Its no different in the fixed-wing E/AB side when it comes to engines/powerplants and cost.

However, I wouldn’t exactly consider the GT50 to be a completely “new” design. Its core design is more a copy of a proven engine with many hours of service but incorporating a number of modern improvements. Its also my understanding he has some of the original engine design’s support people on his team. Same method also used toward the other major components in copying proven designs with modern upgrades.

Sure it’s a big undertaking, but considering the maintenance cycle he is projecting, I think it’s a more prudent way forward in the big picture. Having worked on most of the existing helicopter turbines out there, and their variants, I think if he stays the course the engine will be one of the least issues in the long run.


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Old 3rd Jul 2024, 21:30
  #1653 (permalink)  
 
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Latest update available on YouTube. I’m hugely impressed and wish the entire team the success they deserve.
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Old 3rd Jul 2024, 23:30
  #1654 (permalink)  
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Old 4th Jul 2024, 00:14
  #1655 (permalink)  
 
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Basically production had to be put on hold as a necessary evil to move into the new production facility, which should be nearly fully operational in August and by September at the latest they'll resume work on the engine et al. A warranted disruption.

One disappointment I have is I was always concerned about those screens blocking view, especially in a VMC-only helicopter intended for owner-operators who would prioritize outward visibility. Mischa claimed they're so low that they really don't, but in this video Jason confirms they do in fact block some view (despite being low) since they're enormous 15.6" screens, and he implemented a camera view background as a bizarre hack to get around that issue. Probably not a big deal for the one in front of the pilot, but in my R44 I frequently look out the passenger's side of the windscreen and I think a 16" screen on that side would really be a bit of an impairment. But I haven't sat in one yet.

Jason also confirmed both displays are intended to be permanent; you won't be able to remove the passenger's screen. Which seems strange to me.
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Old 4th Jul 2024, 10:57
  #1656 (permalink)  
 
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Jason said they will be making 1000 aircraft a year after two years of production.

Deliveries are supposed to start next year.

Still no working engine yet



Last edited by hargreaves99; 10th Jul 2024 at 16:00.
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Old 4th Jul 2024, 17:29
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
Jason said they will be making 1000 aircraft a year after two years of production.
Wow, so that's 40 finishing bays working for 50 weeks a year (2 weeks per owner). All fully staffed with the supply of all parts required, ready to go.

In other news, does Jason say that the moon is made of cheese? And that the earth is flat? Both are just about as likely as them making 1000 Hill Helicopters a year. Ever.
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Old 4th Jul 2024, 20:45
  #1658 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
CCGame - he is building another helicopter - that's not ground breaking or innovative, the only new thing is that he is getting other people to pay for it.

Wrench 1 - can you name one? HX50 isn't built yet and it looks being a long time before one flies. And an even longer time before anyone actually gets to own one. All the promised specs are just a wish list at the moment.
So no different to the other manufacturers using Govt money oh no wait, tax payers money ( only difference is the tax payer gets royally ripped off )
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Old 4th Jul 2024, 21:29
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Originally Posted by Hughes500
So no different to the other manufacturers using Govt money oh no wait, tax payers money ( only difference is the tax payer gets royally ripped off )
As I understand the HX50 has been funded only with private investments and deposits. No public money.
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Old 5th Jul 2024, 06:50
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"Jason Hill additionally runs Dynamic Engineering, which, in 2018, was awarded around £1.4 million ($1.83 million) in grant funding from government body Innovate UK to develop the aircraft"

"t
he company is doing so, we understand, under the steam of a few UK Government grants, but it's otherwise entirely self-funded and 100-percent owned by Jason Hill and his wife Sabrina"



https://app.dimensions.ai/details/grant/grant.8483424

During this ambitious and innovative project, our consortium will develop a next-generation private helicopter that delivers reduced environmental impact, lower noise levels and unprecedented levels of safety, comfort and performance at a game-changing price point. Existing helicopters suitable for private ownership are noisy, uncomfortable and have very poor load carrying capacity. Limited engine power also means that the pilot must always be aware of flight limitations to maintain safe operation. They are also expensive to purchase with high depreciation, operating and maintenance costs. The innovation within this project is focused on solving well-known deficiencies of existing helicopters to deliver an aircraft with improved flight characteristics, structural safety and which requires substantially less maintenance. The project will result in a helicopter that will appeal to a new global market -- private owners that are looking for a practical, luxurious, affordable and well specified 5-seat helicopter with low running costs (£15k per year). Research reveals that there is high demand for this specification, which is not being met by existing manufacturers.

This market segment is ready for rapid commercial exploitation and we will produce helicopters from our UK manufacturing base in Cornwall. The aircraft, the HX50 Revolution, will use a suite of next-generation technologies. Key innovations include a modern turbine engine capable of running on a variety of fuel types, including biofuels. It includes advanced inlet, outlet and engine bay silencers and it will increase the power to weight ratio of the aircraft, providing improved flight characteristics and load carrying capacity for passengers and luggage. A newly designed composite airframe based on advanced materials provides a lightweight, damage tolerant and impact resistant structure and HX50 will also benefit from a new approach in rotor and hub design. This will provide superior flight performance, benign handling and superior bird & wire-strike protection. Low aerodynamic drag improves fuel consumption, whilst a luxurious and quiet interior will improve comfort. This project will utilise the above innovations to develop the first HX50 helicopter, which will be flight tested and ready for subsequent commercialisation. This is made possible by our unique business model which reduces both development & production costs. We are also able to accelerate market access and ensure that the HX50 delivers excellent value-for-money, transforming the sector for private helicopters globally. This project will create growth and new jobs in the South-West and re-invigorate the UK's helicopter industry.


Last edited by hargreaves99; 5th Jul 2024 at 10:58.
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