Hill Helicopters HX50
I'm #24 on the order list and still feeling good. I love reading the posts shooting this project down. If you're right, I owe you one, but if we had to rely on all naysayers to hold things up, nothing in the world would be a success. Who would have figured Elon would blast astronauts in the atmosphere after only starting an electric car company. Here's a thought, anyone posting a negative thought, tell us first how many atoms you've split in your lifetime. I would love to hear your success stories.
Just a few pages down from this thread there is an other by Swiss Company that already had a working prototype helicopter in 2011. It looks kind of similar to the one you have purchased. Agusta bought it out and rebranded it as the AW09. The built prototype was being showcased 12 years ago. It has taken it this long to come to market* (* longer actually, since it's still not actually out yet) and it has a Powerplant built by Safran, Avionics built by Sagem and Garmin, support and an army of engineers and developers from one of the biggest helicopter companies in the world. Hills has none of those and says at public events that it will have a flying prototype by the end of the year
Will Hills be successful? I don't know. I hope so. I genuinely hope so. I would love to replace our fleet of Airbus H125 and R44s with one of Hills. But with so many self imposed challenges and hurdles to clear, right out of the starting blocks they shoot themselves in the foot and tie a polished ball-bearing and a chain to the other. Every crypto statement, every completely impossible timeline is doing harm to the image and reputation of the company. But hats off to the guy who spent millions on those Blender Renders and Google/Bookface marketing
There are companies like Tesla and SpaceX and there companies like Nikola and Lordstown Motors. All of them publicly listed. Although without Nikola we wouldn't have amazing works of art like these:
Last edited by nikoel; 13th Mar 2023 at 02:29.
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Just a few pages down from this thread there is an other by Swiss Company that already had a working prototype helicopter in 2011. It looks kind of similar to the one you have purchased. Agusta bought it out and rebranded it as the AW09. The built prototype was being showcased 12 years ago. It has taken it this long to come to market* (* longer actually, since it's still not actually out yet) and it has a Powerplant built by Safran, Avionics built by Sagem and Garmin, support and an army of engineers and developers from one of the biggest helicopter companies in the world. Hills has none of those and says at public events that it will have a flying prototype by the end of the year
The SH09 was always targeted toward professional users (Air Zermatt was their projected and actual lead launch customer) the HX50 is targeted toward the wealthy private operator. Marenco’s initial thinking drivers were comparable to hill helicopters, giving the customer more of what they need for a lower price. Basically, an EC135(+) lookalike but with the simplicity and efficiency of a single. Everything already built-in compared to an AS350 that you have to add a bunch of STCs to get it right.
If you try to compare the now AW09 story to the HX50 story now, it just does not match. Agusta Westland has done exactly what any large manufacturer would have done.
That is: add 10 years to the project schedule and redesign everything (they redesigned the transmission, rotor head, tail fenestron, cowlings, new engine ….) when you say: Powerplant built by Safran, Avionics built by Sagem and Garmin and army of engineers to support it all. It warms my heart, that is honestly what I want to fly in.
But the HX50 appeals to a different crowd, the crowd that is tired of paying an incredible cost to get their machine flyable. Basically, the same crowd that adopted the Robinson products years ago. Except the Robinson products break up in the air and we are getting tired of flying a turbine (R66) that look like an overgrown R44. So yes, there is a space for a machine for the private owner that is turbine, and that is in the R66 operating price with all the modernity that we should have today.
I would have hoped that Gimbal would have come to the table with a G4, to satisfy that need, I think it would have been quite similar to the HC50, maybe a bit more utility focused, like an H120. but they don’t, they might be a reason why, similarly they also terminated the H120 production.
People always comparing it to the long certification times of other machines. It’s Experimental. It just needs to work. They are doing the HC50 certification in parallel so that can take as long as it needs, probably 5-10 years. Stop comparing apples with oranges.
Bitcoin payments: the customer pays into a UK exchange called Coincorner, who pay Hill immediately in £ …he has no exposure to BTC.
Customer deposits are non-refundable so he can book that as revenue and spend it on R&D.
There’s up to 4000 sales with interest registered but waiting on certain milestones such as Engine on test bench, prototype lifting off, serial #1, 50,000 fleet hours, …. Each major milestone (like real fuselage), brings a surge of orders.
Remember this is a new category of customer unlocked: people like me who “can afford the capital cost of a helicopter but who can’t afford to lose it”. I would never have bought a helicopter otherwise. I am an entirely new market for helicopter orders. He understands his market. There is an app with lots of tech video updates the public doesn’t see, and a supportive community that is very positive and posts cool pics. Basically the opposite of pprune. The wait time is part of the excitement and journey for me. Getting to see weekly updates as things come together over many years builds excitement. For me, lifting off this machine after waiting 3-5 years or whatever it will end up being, will be amazing.
Seeing as this thing is experimental, it just needs to work, physically. I still haven’t seen any of the negative nancies actually provide any legitimate engineering reasons why it won’t work or be manufactured.
He publicly stated in the last update about the council applications for the production center, and he has 4 backup options including worst case a bunch of small sites he rents. He said he isn’t going to let a planning application stop him.
He says he’s done the rotor system but can’t show details until some patents have gone through.
Engine: what I’m most worried about since it’s gone through several iterations but he appears set that it’s basically finalised now, and seems confident for a “summer” (Nth hemisphere) running.
I suspect this long thread will continue to go back and forth as things are designed. “He got an engine but look it blew up ha ha”. “Look it flies but they had ground resonance how **** is that”. “They made their factory but it was late”. “Oh yeah they are selling but it’s a long wait time and £100k more than they promised”. “Oh look it only goes 140kts, all those hill evangilists said it would probably go 160”. “Haha look it’s got an AD for this issue now - we said that would be a problem 3 years ago”. People will always complain.
Bitcoin payments: the customer pays into a UK exchange called Coincorner, who pay Hill immediately in £ …he has no exposure to BTC.
Customer deposits are non-refundable so he can book that as revenue and spend it on R&D.
There’s up to 4000 sales with interest registered but waiting on certain milestones such as Engine on test bench, prototype lifting off, serial #1, 50,000 fleet hours, …. Each major milestone (like real fuselage), brings a surge of orders.
Remember this is a new category of customer unlocked: people like me who “can afford the capital cost of a helicopter but who can’t afford to lose it”. I would never have bought a helicopter otherwise. I am an entirely new market for helicopter orders. He understands his market. There is an app with lots of tech video updates the public doesn’t see, and a supportive community that is very positive and posts cool pics. Basically the opposite of pprune. The wait time is part of the excitement and journey for me. Getting to see weekly updates as things come together over many years builds excitement. For me, lifting off this machine after waiting 3-5 years or whatever it will end up being, will be amazing.
Seeing as this thing is experimental, it just needs to work, physically. I still haven’t seen any of the negative nancies actually provide any legitimate engineering reasons why it won’t work or be manufactured.
He publicly stated in the last update about the council applications for the production center, and he has 4 backup options including worst case a bunch of small sites he rents. He said he isn’t going to let a planning application stop him.
He says he’s done the rotor system but can’t show details until some patents have gone through.
Engine: what I’m most worried about since it’s gone through several iterations but he appears set that it’s basically finalised now, and seems confident for a “summer” (Nth hemisphere) running.
I suspect this long thread will continue to go back and forth as things are designed. “He got an engine but look it blew up ha ha”. “Look it flies but they had ground resonance how **** is that”. “They made their factory but it was late”. “Oh yeah they are selling but it’s a long wait time and £100k more than they promised”. “Oh look it only goes 140kts, all those hill evangilists said it would probably go 160”. “Haha look it’s got an AD for this issue now - we said that would be a problem 3 years ago”. People will always complain.
People always comparing it to the long certification times of other machines. It’s Experimental. It just needs to work. They are doing the HC50 certification in parallel so that can take as long as it needs, probably 5-10 years. Stop comparing apples with oranges.
I suspect this long thread will continue to go back and forth as things are designed. “He got an engine but look it blew up ha ha”. “Look it flies but they had ground resonance how **** is that”. “They made their factory but it was late”. “Oh yeah they are selling but it’s a long wait time and £100k more than they promised”. “Oh look it only goes 140kts, all those hill evangilists said it would probably go 160”. “Haha look it’s got an AD for this issue now - we said that would be a problem 3 years ago”. People will always complain.
I suspect this long thread will continue to go back and forth as things are designed. “He got an engine but look it blew up ha ha”. “Look it flies but they had ground resonance how **** is that”. “They made their factory but it was late”. “Oh yeah they are selling but it’s a long wait time and £100k more than they promised”. “Oh look it only goes 140kts, all those hill evangilists said it would probably go 160”. “Haha look it’s got an AD for this issue now - we said that would be a problem 3 years ago”. People will always complain.
The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
As far as I can remember, none of us "negative nancies" as you call us ever said we wish he fails. We only questioned XYZ mantra.
The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
I hope he succeeds, but I think he has an enormous mountain to climb and at some point he has to say to people that either the price, timeline, or specs are not going to met as per his promises.
That is the problem. Hill didn't say: I'm building another experimental helicopter. He said: I am building helicopter that will have X performance, will cost Y money and will be finished by Z time.
The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
As far as I can remember, none of us "negative nancies" as you call us ever said we wish he fails. We only questioned XYZ mantra.
The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
As far as I can remember, none of us "negative nancies" as you call us ever said we wish he fails. We only questioned XYZ mantra.
Hargreaves 99 - I think the previous few posts say things better than I could 
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Hargreaves 99 - I think the previous few posts say things better than I could
Any update on the helicopter version of sunlit uplands?
Other than the shiny new CMM machine that is.
Other than the shiny new CMM machine that is.
https://www.hillhelicopters.com/orders
Yet...no working engine so far, and no factory planning permission granted.
Yet...no working engine so far, and no factory planning permission granted.
Here is the latest update...
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We're excited to announce that the 3rd HX50 Global Meetup & Discover Event is coming up later this year! As an owner, you're invited to join us for an unforgettable experience on the 6th & 7th December 2023, at the Imperial War Museum Duxford - Cambridgeshire, UK.
Prepare for the moment we've all been eagerly anticipating – the grand unveiling of the complete HX50. Dive into an unmatched sensory journey. Discover the luxurious interior, get hands-on with the cutting-edge Hill Digital Cockpit, and admire the stunning design that sets the HX50 apart from any other aircraft.
Day 1: Exclusively for Owners and Guests
The first day is dedicated to our HX50 owners and their guests. We suggest you arrive by 3pm GMT, as the excitement begins at 5pm GMT. Jason Hill will be on hand with live demonstrations, project updates, and to address any questions you may have. The highlight of the evening will be your inaugural encounter with the complete HX50 – seeing it, feeling it, and stepping inside!
Day 2: Open to All Enthusiasts
The second day is our open day, welcoming all those interested in the HX50. As an owner, you'll continue to enjoy priority access to the HX50 throughout the event.
The Venue: A Fusion of History and Innovation
The Imperial War Museum Duxford - Cambridgeshire, UK, provides a breathtaking setting for this year's event. Explore the latest technology and aviation engineering, all while immersed in the rich history and heritage of the venue.
Availability is limited, particularly for Day 1, so we encourage you to secure your spot for you and your guests as soon as possible. On Day 2, feel free to bring additional family and friends to share in the excitement of the HX50 adventure.
Reserve spots for you and your guests promptly by clicking the personalised link below.
We're eager to see you there, making history together!
Cheers,
Ruben Dias and Mischa Gelb
-----------
We're excited to announce that the 3rd HX50 Global Meetup & Discover Event is coming up later this year! As an owner, you're invited to join us for an unforgettable experience on the 6th & 7th December 2023, at the Imperial War Museum Duxford - Cambridgeshire, UK.
Prepare for the moment we've all been eagerly anticipating – the grand unveiling of the complete HX50. Dive into an unmatched sensory journey. Discover the luxurious interior, get hands-on with the cutting-edge Hill Digital Cockpit, and admire the stunning design that sets the HX50 apart from any other aircraft.
Day 1: Exclusively for Owners and Guests
The first day is dedicated to our HX50 owners and their guests. We suggest you arrive by 3pm GMT, as the excitement begins at 5pm GMT. Jason Hill will be on hand with live demonstrations, project updates, and to address any questions you may have. The highlight of the evening will be your inaugural encounter with the complete HX50 – seeing it, feeling it, and stepping inside!
Day 2: Open to All Enthusiasts
The second day is our open day, welcoming all those interested in the HX50. As an owner, you'll continue to enjoy priority access to the HX50 throughout the event.
The Venue: A Fusion of History and Innovation
The Imperial War Museum Duxford - Cambridgeshire, UK, provides a breathtaking setting for this year's event. Explore the latest technology and aviation engineering, all while immersed in the rich history and heritage of the venue.
Availability is limited, particularly for Day 1, so we encourage you to secure your spot for you and your guests as soon as possible. On Day 2, feel free to bring additional family and friends to share in the excitement of the HX50 adventure.
Reserve spots for you and your guests promptly by clicking the personalised link below.
We're eager to see you there, making history together!
Cheers,
Ruben Dias and Mischa Gelb
Last edited by hargreaves99; 6th May 2023 at 13:15.
What an utter load of cobblers - if I had paid the money up front I would be expecting a flying demonstrator by this stage not son et lumiere productions to manage expectations.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
What an utter load of cobblers - if I had paid the money up front I would be expecting a flying demonstrator by this stage not son et lumiere productions to manage expectations.
Or more likely, you are right. "Here's something that you can tell all your friends about and maybe get them to place a deposit on an aircraft they won't see until 2029 or probably never"