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Hill Helicopters HX50

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Hill Helicopters HX50

Old 12th Mar 2023, 13:21
  #741 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jetexec
I'm #24 on the order list and still feeling good. I love reading the posts shooting this project down. If you're right, I owe you one, but if we had to rely on all naysayers to hold things up, nothing in the world would be a success. Who would have figured Elon would blast astronauts in the atmosphere after only starting an electric car company. Here's a thought, anyone posting a negative thought, tell us first how many atoms you've split in your lifetime. I would love to hear your success stories.
Look Jetexec, perhaps reconsider the bar to criticism you have set here. No one in this thread has split an atom. My or anyone else's successes and failures have little to do with Hills. It's still undeniable that some of the things that are being said are, well.. lies. You don't owe me anything because you have already parted with your money, but considering all this; I understand you

Just a few pages down from this thread there is an other by Swiss Company that already had a working prototype helicopter in 2011. It looks kind of similar to the one you have purchased. Agusta bought it out and rebranded it as the AW09. The built prototype was being showcased 12 years ago. It has taken it this long to come to market* (* longer actually, since it's still not actually out yet) and it has a Powerplant built by Safran, Avionics built by Sagem and Garmin, support and an army of engineers and developers from one of the biggest helicopter companies in the world. Hills has none of those and says at public events that it will have a flying prototype by the end of the year

Will Hills be successful? I don't know. I hope so. I genuinely hope so. I would love to replace our fleet of Airbus H125 and R44s with one of Hills. But with so many self imposed challenges and hurdles to clear, right out of the starting blocks they shoot themselves in the foot and tie a polished ball-bearing and a chain to the other. Every crypto statement, every completely impossible timeline is doing harm to the image and reputation of the company. But hats off to the guy who spent millions on those Blender Renders and Google/Bookface marketing

There are companies like Tesla and SpaceX and there companies like Nikola and Lordstown Motors. All of them publicly listed. Although without Nikola we wouldn't have amazing works of art like these:


Last edited by nikoel; 13th Mar 2023 at 02:29.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 03:09
  #742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nikoel
Just a few pages down from this thread there is an other by Swiss Company that already had a working prototype helicopter in 2011. It looks kind of similar to the one you have purchased. Agusta bought it out and rebranded it as the AW09. The built prototype was being showcased 12 years ago. It has taken it this long to come to market* (* longer actually, since it's still not actually out yet) and it has a Powerplant built by Safran, Avionics built by Sagem and Garmin, support and an army of engineers and developers from one of the biggest helicopter companies in the world. Hills has none of those and says at public events that it will have a flying prototype by the end of the year
Yes, on the surface the comparison between AW09 (SH09 Marenco Helicopters) and the HX50 comes to mind but the reality is different.

The SH09 was always targeted toward professional users (Air Zermatt was their projected and actual lead launch customer) the HX50 is targeted toward the wealthy private operator. Marenco’s initial thinking drivers were comparable to hill helicopters, giving the customer more of what they need for a lower price. Basically, an EC135(+) lookalike but with the simplicity and efficiency of a single. Everything already built-in compared to an AS350 that you have to add a bunch of STCs to get it right.

If you try to compare the now AW09 story to the HX50 story now, it just does not match. Agusta Westland has done exactly what any large manufacturer would have done.

That is: add 10 years to the project schedule and redesign everything (they redesigned the transmission, rotor head, tail fenestron, cowlings, new engine ….) when you say: Powerplant built by Safran, Avionics built by Sagem and Garmin and army of engineers to support it all. It warms my heart, that is honestly what I want to fly in.

But the HX50 appeals to a different crowd, the crowd that is tired of paying an incredible cost to get their machine flyable. Basically, the same crowd that adopted the Robinson products years ago. Except the Robinson products break up in the air and we are getting tired of flying a turbine (R66) that look like an overgrown R44. So yes, there is a space for a machine for the private owner that is turbine, and that is in the R66 operating price with all the modernity that we should have today.

I would have hoped that Gimbal would have come to the table with a G4, to satisfy that need, I think it would have been quite similar to the HC50, maybe a bit more utility focused, like an H120. but they don’t, they might be a reason why, similarly they also terminated the H120 production.

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Old 14th Mar 2023, 14:21
  #743 (permalink)  
 
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People always comparing it to the long certification times of other machines. It’s Experimental. It just needs to work. They are doing the HC50 certification in parallel so that can take as long as it needs, probably 5-10 years. Stop comparing apples with oranges.

Bitcoin payments: the customer pays into a UK exchange called Coincorner, who pay Hill immediately in £ …he has no exposure to BTC.

Customer deposits are non-refundable so he can book that as revenue and spend it on R&D.

There’s up to 4000 sales with interest registered but waiting on certain milestones such as Engine on test bench, prototype lifting off, serial #1, 50,000 fleet hours, …. Each major milestone (like real fuselage), brings a surge of orders.

Remember this is a new category of customer unlocked: people like me who “can afford the capital cost of a helicopter but who can’t afford to lose it”. I would never have bought a helicopter otherwise. I am an entirely new market for helicopter orders. He understands his market. There is an app with lots of tech video updates the public doesn’t see, and a supportive community that is very positive and posts cool pics. Basically the opposite of pprune. The wait time is part of the excitement and journey for me. Getting to see weekly updates as things come together over many years builds excitement. For me, lifting off this machine after waiting 3-5 years or whatever it will end up being, will be amazing.

Seeing as this thing is experimental, it just needs to work, physically. I still haven’t seen any of the negative nancies actually provide any legitimate engineering reasons why it won’t work or be manufactured.

He publicly stated in the last update about the council applications for the production center, and he has 4 backup options including worst case a bunch of small sites he rents. He said he isn’t going to let a planning application stop him.

He says he’s done the rotor system but can’t show details until some patents have gone through.

Engine: what I’m most worried about since it’s gone through several iterations but he appears set that it’s basically finalised now, and seems confident for a “summer” (Nth hemisphere) running.

I suspect this long thread will continue to go back and forth as things are designed. “He got an engine but look it blew up ha ha”. “Look it flies but they had ground resonance how **** is that”. “They made their factory but it was late”. “Oh yeah they are selling but it’s a long wait time and £100k more than they promised”. “Oh look it only goes 140kts, all those hill evangilists said it would probably go 160”. “Haha look it’s got an AD for this issue now - we said that would be a problem 3 years ago”. People will always complain.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 18:27
  #744 (permalink)  
 
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Can't wait to hear Crab's reply to this.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 18:43
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Originally Posted by Shagpile
People always comparing it to the long certification times of other machines. It’s Experimental. It just needs to work. They are doing the HC50 certification in parallel so that can take as long as it needs, probably 5-10 years. Stop comparing apples with oranges.


I suspect this long thread will continue to go back and forth as things are designed. “He got an engine but look it blew up ha ha”. “Look it flies but they had ground resonance how **** is that”. “They made their factory but it was late”. “Oh yeah they are selling but it’s a long wait time and £100k more than they promised”. “Oh look it only goes 140kts, all those hill evangilists said it would probably go 160”. “Haha look it’s got an AD for this issue now - we said that would be a problem 3 years ago”. People will always complain.
That is the problem. Hill didn't say: I'm building another experimental helicopter. He said: I am building helicopter that will have X performance, will cost Y money and will be finished by Z time.
The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
As far as I can remember, none of us "negative nancies" as you call us ever said we wish he fails. We only questioned XYZ mantra.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 19:13
  #746 (permalink)  
 
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The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
i agree. He could have said "I am building a helicopter, it might have X performance, and err, I've no idea when it will be ready", but nobody is going to put a deposit down on that!

I hope he succeeds, but I think he has an enormous mountain to climb and at some point he has to say to people that either the price, timeline, or specs are not going to met as per his promises.

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Old 14th Mar 2023, 19:52
  #747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Shagpile
There is an app with lots of tech video updates the public doesn’t see, and a supportive community that is very positive and posts cool pics. Basically the opposite of pprune.
Sounds like a nice kool-aid dispenser.

Originally Posted by Shagpile
He says he’s done the rotor system but can’t show details until some patents have gone through.
What does he mean by "gone though"? US Patent application publication is 18 months from submission, and on average takes 2-5 years for issue depending on the examiner. The inventor also has priority on the claims by filing date due to first-to-file, so once its filed it is protected IP. There's no reason not to show his most ardent supporters design details of the most important system on the machine unless he hasn't even submitted those patents. As someone with decades of rotor design experience myself, this is one of the "legitimate engineering concern" areas for me.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 07:11
  #748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by admikar
That is the problem. Hill didn't say: I'm building another experimental helicopter. He said: I am building helicopter that will have X performance, will cost Y money and will be finished by Z time.
The reason he said so is to attract investors. So far, none of his XYZ came true.
As far as I can remember, none of us "negative nancies" as you call us ever said we wish he fails. We only questioned XYZ mantra.
Actually, he said he is building a certified helicopter, just starting with a "self-build" that is effectively going to be the same thing. So he has implied it is anything but experimental, and I suspect that is a big appeal to prospective buyers. I have no doubt he is opening a new market, with his flying-sportscar analogy, I can only imagine how many carbon-fibre craters that culture will produce. Hopefully the buyers flying abilities surpass their grammar skills.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 07:19
  #749 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SansAnhedral
Sounds like a nice kool-aid dispenser.
Doesn't it just. Echo chambers are wonderful things to keep the faithful, faithful. Questions, skepticism are such negative things, who needs those when you have cool pics.
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 07:46
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Hargreaves 99 - I think the previous few posts say things better than I could
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 10:17
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Hargreaves 99 - I think the previous few posts say things better than I could
Come on now, don't be such a buzzkill.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 09:45
  #752 (permalink)  
 
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Any update on the helicopter version of sunlit uplands?

Other than the shiny new CMM machine that is.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 16:59
  #753 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.hillhelicopters.com/orders



Yet...no working engine so far, and no factory planning permission granted.
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Old 6th May 2023, 08:38
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Here is the latest update...


-----------
We're excited to announce that the 3rd HX50 Global Meetup & Discover Event is coming up later this year! As an owner, you're invited to join us for an unforgettable experience on the 6th & 7th December 2023, at the Imperial War Museum Duxford - Cambridgeshire, UK.


Prepare for the moment we've all been eagerly anticipating – the grand unveiling of the complete HX50. Dive into an unmatched sensory journey. Discover the luxurious interior, get hands-on with the cutting-edge Hill Digital Cockpit, and admire the stunning design that sets the HX50 apart from any other aircraft.

Day 1: Exclusively for Owners and Guests

The first day is dedicated to our HX50 owners and their guests. We suggest you arrive by 3pm GMT, as the excitement begins at 5pm GMT. Jason Hill will be on hand with live demonstrations, project updates, and to address any questions you may have. The highlight of the evening will be your inaugural encounter with the complete HX50 – seeing it, feeling it, and stepping inside!

Day 2: Open to All Enthusiasts

The second day is our open day, welcoming all those interested in the HX50. As an owner, you'll continue to enjoy priority access to the HX50 throughout the event.

The Venue: A Fusion of History and Innovation

The Imperial War Museum Duxford - Cambridgeshire, UK, provides a breathtaking setting for this year's event. Explore the latest technology and aviation engineering, all while immersed in the rich history and heritage of the venue.

Availability is limited, particularly for Day 1, so we encourage you to secure your spot for you and your guests as soon as possible. On Day 2, feel free to bring additional family and friends to share in the excitement of the HX50 adventure.

Reserve spots for you and your guests promptly by clicking the personalised link below.

We're eager to see you there, making history together!


Cheers,

Ruben Dias and Mischa Gelb

Last edited by hargreaves99; 6th May 2023 at 13:15.
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Old 6th May 2023, 16:23
  #755 (permalink)  
 
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Would like to see how they define “complete”, so far in hillspeak they seem to mean mockup.
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Old 6th May 2023, 17:07
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If it has nice screens that can be turned on I'm sure buyers will be happy
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Old 6th May 2023, 17:58
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Originally Posted by admikar
If it has nice screens that can be turned on I'm sure buyers will be happy
True. I’d take a heat lamp and aim it at the ipad and see how long it stays on..
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Old 6th May 2023, 20:01
  #758 (permalink)  
 
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What an utter load of cobblers - if I had paid the money up front I would be expecting a flying demonstrator by this stage not son et lumiere productions to manage expectations.
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Old 6th May 2023, 20:51
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I'm no native English speaker but in my ears the term "owner" sounds pretty awkward in regards to something that doesn't exist yet.
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Old 7th May 2023, 07:06
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
What an utter load of cobblers - if I had paid the money up front I would be expecting a flying demonstrator by this stage not son et lumiere productions to manage expectations.
You cynic! Perhaps they will be arranging a surprise test flight at the event as after all a prototype flying by the end of 2023 was a 'milestone' in the development path.

Or more likely, you are right. "Here's something that you can tell all your friends about and maybe get them to place a deposit on an aircraft they won't see until 2029 or probably never"
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