Hill Helicopters HX50
Originally Posted by johni
I met someone who paid a £40,000 deposit and has a "build order number" around 270.
You are putting deposit for base spec helicopter (which seems to be nice enough as it is) with options/options pricing TBD, so basically Hill can charge whatever he wants for options. You as a buyer have 3 choices: go with base spec, pay whatever is asked if there is something you really want/need or cancel order forfeiting your deposit.
I don't know how it is defined by UK law, but in my country, overdue payment penalty interest is defined by central bank. Hill charges 4% on top of that.
If customer refuses to take delivery (doesn't state what is reasonable refusal), buyer is due full price+plus any storage expenses.
Some other things, but I am not versed enought in legal contracts to be able to fully understand implications.
I don't know how it is defined by UK law, but in my country, overdue payment penalty interest is defined by central bank. Hill charges 4% on top of that.
If customer refuses to take delivery (doesn't state what is reasonable refusal), buyer is due full price+plus any storage expenses.
Some other things, but I am not versed enought in legal contracts to be able to fully understand implications.
Why not ask them directly? Sign up for a presentation and/or join the live Q&A session they are doing on Tuesday. The company is totally transparent and will answer any questions you have...Hill himself has answered this question many times.
Indicative pricing for options is listed on the website. It would make no sense for them to price options unreasonably.
Indicative pricing for options is listed on the website. It would make no sense for them to price options unreasonably.
I did get the invite to listen in yesterday's webinar, but sadly I was busy doing something else. As others have said, the delay is no surprise and there will be many other obstacles to overcome for buyers.
Somewhere above someone asked about insurance, a depositor said the equivalent of 'Jason has it sorted'. Digging through the FAQs, this is what it says (live, on the website, today):
"
Do you expect to have an insurer that would be able to insure Hill Helicopters around the world for a reasonable amount?
Our primary focus has been on the hull insurance and that will definitely be available around the world as that will be partly underwritten by us. In terms of liability insurance around the world, 3rd party, we haven’t done anything on that yet but we will also be trying to tie that in with the insurance that we provide so we expect to be in a position where we can provide a single source for coverage around the world.
Doesn't exactly sound 'sorted' to me.
Somewhere above someone asked about insurance, a depositor said the equivalent of 'Jason has it sorted'. Digging through the FAQs, this is what it says (live, on the website, today):
"
Do you expect to have an insurer that would be able to insure Hill Helicopters around the world for a reasonable amount?
Our primary focus has been on the hull insurance and that will definitely be available around the world as that will be partly underwritten by us. In terms of liability insurance around the world, 3rd party, we haven’t done anything on that yet but we will also be trying to tie that in with the insurance that we provide so we expect to be in a position where we can provide a single source for coverage around the world.
Doesn't exactly sound 'sorted' to me.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
yes what a huge surprise............
I also understand your cynicism, but I just wish that the community at large would be more supportive.
We should embrace people who put a lifelong commitment into creating real, physical products in the UK attracting interest, investment (wherever that comes from), jobs and tax revenues.
I work in manufacturing and am proud to see raw materials being turned into products I see daily all across the nation being used by individuals and corporates alike.
Like Dr Hill, I’ve been through the curve of massive investment and the associated sleepless nights. Also like Dr Hill I’ve heard (but not listened to) the voices that say it won’t work.
Those voices normally originate from people who have neither the drive nor the vision to push themselves to do something remarkable, often from a position of professional and financial comfort. Not suggesting thats’s you Crab, but as I see it, the world is a much better place for having guys like this giving it their best shot.
And remember, if / when Hill is successful, there will be positive repercussions throughout the industry. The utterly shameless profiteering from peddling 1960s technology with its associated piece of paper by the OEMs will be shown up to be the racket it is.
I’ve not ordered an HX50 and have no affiliation whatsoever, but I genuinely hope he delivers the machine that’s promised and gets the success his determination, ambition and graft deserve.
I agree Flimsyfan - you need innovators and if he produces what he has promised I will, like Bellringer, order a hat to eat and be impressed with what he will have achieved.
The cycnic in me still doubts that though and I worry that his workforce could be left without jobs and investors left without their funds if it is a flop.
Innovators can create jobs and wealth but pipe-dreamers can cause the loss of the same.
Let's hope I am wrong but it is a massively ambitious project he is attempting.
The cycnic in me still doubts that though and I worry that his workforce could be left without jobs and investors left without their funds if it is a flop.
Innovators can create jobs and wealth but pipe-dreamers can cause the loss of the same.
Let's hope I am wrong but it is a massively ambitious project he is attempting.
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Originally Posted by FlimsyFan
I also understand your cynicism, but I just wish that the community at large would be more supportive.
PhlyingGuy
Straight question, what experience do you have of certifying aircraft?
Lots of people have 'experience of the industry', far fewer have directly applicable experience, particularly in the context of what Hill Helicopters is attempting.
I'm very much with Flimsyfan on this one.
Straight question, what experience do you have of certifying aircraft?
Lots of people have 'experience of the industry', far fewer have directly applicable experience, particularly in the context of what Hill Helicopters is attempting.
I'm very much with Flimsyfan on this one.
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Nearly two decades at an OEM working with PMs pursuing multiple certifications... some based on updated variants and some completely new.
Again, I'm not hating on it. I think the design is brilliant and beautiful. But just ask the eVTOL community what they think about certification after they got bait and switched on the standards they had thought they had agreement on for years. Or the 525 or 609 on certification. Or the fact that it's not just about the aircraft, but the production cert, building cert, etc.
I'm really hoping this is a great aircraft, but it's going to be more of a "kit" than a certified helicopter for a LONG time IMO. And I'm sure the watchdogs are really going to take a look at what a 51% build ACTUALLY looks like.
Again, I'm not hating on it. I think the design is brilliant and beautiful. But just ask the eVTOL community what they think about certification after they got bait and switched on the standards they had thought they had agreement on for years. Or the 525 or 609 on certification. Or the fact that it's not just about the aircraft, but the production cert, building cert, etc.
I'm really hoping this is a great aircraft, but it's going to be more of a "kit" than a certified helicopter for a LONG time IMO. And I'm sure the watchdogs are really going to take a look at what a 51% build ACTUALLY looks like.
Originally Posted by hargreaves99
And...they are "planning to produce 500 aircraft a year in a new 330,000 square foot factory"
Hill may manage to design a fine airframe, and build some, but their engine is the real pipe dream.
Originally Posted by Kemble Pitts
PhlyingGuy
Straight question, what experience do you have of certifying aircraft?
Lots of people have 'experience of the industry', far fewer have directly applicable experience, particularly in the context of what Hill Helicopters is attempting.
I'm very much with Flimsyfan on this one.
Straight question, what experience do you have of certifying aircraft?
Lots of people have 'experience of the industry', far fewer have directly applicable experience, particularly in the context of what Hill Helicopters is attempting.
I'm very much with Flimsyfan on this one.
Originally Posted by Mee3
Lot of us here are in the industry as in design and certification, including me. We are not just skeptic. But a lot of the claim does not makes sense in the industry.
Hill Helicopters is setting itself a serious challenge, that's for sure, but they are going about it in an equally serious way. At first glance, I too was sceptical. However, from what I've seen of their activity they are as well equipped in terms of funds, expertise, drive and vision, not to mention order book, to have a decent chance of success.
There will be set-backs and upsets without doubt, and there will be delays (QED) but that doesn't automatically lead to failure. Show me a single successful aircraft programme of recent (or maybe any) years that hasn't had such problems.
Its very easy to stand on the side-lines as the cynical nay-sayer, but I, for one, am cheering from the side-lines and wishing them great success.
