NVG - eye surgery for ageing eyes...
Thread Starter
NVG - eye surgery for ageing eyes...
Hello All,
Am getting to that age where I need to wear glasses for my night flying.
This is complicated further by the fact that my job requires me use night vision goggles.
I have heard that presbyopia doesn't really have a long term l@ser surgery solution, but I love to get just another 5 years of flying without faffing around with glasses.
I'd really appreciate any advice or to hear of anyone's experiences.
Thanks
Am getting to that age where I need to wear glasses for my night flying.
This is complicated further by the fact that my job requires me use night vision goggles.
I have heard that presbyopia doesn't really have a long term l@ser surgery solution, but I love to get just another 5 years of flying without faffing around with glasses.
I'd really appreciate any advice or to hear of anyone's experiences.
Thanks
Bomber - what do you need the glasses to see? Is it through the NVG or under the NVG for the cockpit instruments, document or map reading?
My distance vision is good so I am fine looking through the goggles using the dioptre adjustment at the rear but I take a pair of glasses or sometime pince-nez for reading a map or looking at close instruments, switches etc.
I know plenty of people who fly on NVG wearing glasses and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
My distance vision is good so I am fine looking through the goggles using the dioptre adjustment at the rear but I take a pair of glasses or sometime pince-nez for reading a map or looking at close instruments, switches etc.
I know plenty of people who fly on NVG wearing glasses and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
The biggest NVG/glasses problem I had (several times) was sitting on the buggers (glasses) as I got ready. For some inexplicable reason I would put my glasses on my seat as I stood outside and put my helmet/goggles on - yes I know we should learn a lesson from our mistakes but in a 1000hr + NVG career I never did and usually never thought about my glasses until I was strapped in on top of them!
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May I suggest you talk to Dr Julian Stevens not saying he will give you a perfect fix but he is the Leading specialist in Eye Corrective surgery and is used by Military Fast Jet & Special forces types UK and US and has pioneered some of the new technology used for Eye Surgery.
I had my eyes lazered last year and it has kept on getting better.
Julian Stevens | Consultant Ophthalmic Surgeon at Moorfields Eye Hospital
I had my eyes lazered last year and it has kept on getting better.
Julian Stevens | Consultant Ophthalmic Surgeon at Moorfields Eye Hospital
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I had obviously missed something and didn't know EASA Part Med now permits laser eye surgery for presbyopia. At a practical level, what's the length of time between having it done and regaining the Class One?
HS
HS
I flew many hours on NVGs wearing glasses. It wasn't a problem.
That's my understanding as well, because the problem isn't caused by an inherent defect in the eye's lens. Presbyopia is long-sightedness caused by loss of elasticity of the lens of the eye, occurring typically in middle and old age. Surgery could correct at the time of surgery, but the elasticity of the lens could then deteriorate further with time.
presbyopia doesn't really have a long term l@ser surgery solution
Thread Starter
Thanks for the responses.
Crab - My distance vision is fine, and I look through the tubes with the naked eye, but have the smallest glasses I can find perched on the end of my nose for viewing the instrument panel. This leaves a gap (between the goggles and the spectacles) out to the right to use an external white light reference for winching, etc. However, I'd rather not have the glasses getting in the way of my below goggle view through the chin bubble for helipad style departures etc.
Mighty Gem - I have heard the surgery won't provide a permanent solution to my presbyopia, but I'd be prepared to undergo treatment if it were able to give me, say, another 5 years of goggle flying without needing specs.
Thanks again
Crab - My distance vision is fine, and I look through the tubes with the naked eye, but have the smallest glasses I can find perched on the end of my nose for viewing the instrument panel. This leaves a gap (between the goggles and the spectacles) out to the right to use an external white light reference for winching, etc. However, I'd rather not have the glasses getting in the way of my below goggle view through the chin bubble for helipad style departures etc.
Mighty Gem - I have heard the surgery won't provide a permanent solution to my presbyopia, but I'd be prepared to undergo treatment if it were able to give me, say, another 5 years of goggle flying without needing specs.
Thanks again
Bomber - you could try pince-nez- I use NooZ - they can be pushed flat when you don't need them and you don't have the problem of spectacle arms fitting in your helmet. This gives much more vision under goggs for winching etc.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the link. I use an almost identical product https://www.thinoptics.com/headline-reading-glasses
I'd just like to explore whether I can surgically avoid having to use them for 5 years, then revert to wearing reading glasses once the surgically delayed presbyopia kicks in again, after I have given up goggle flying.
I'd just like to explore whether I can surgically avoid having to use them for 5 years, then revert to wearing reading glasses once the surgically delayed presbyopia kicks in again, after I have given up goggle flying.
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There are no good solutions for presbyopia where refractive surgery is concerned. Your only choices are multifocal correction and monovision. Both really screw with your depth perception. You can try both by going to your eye doc and asking for contact lenses that do the same things.
Indeed, I've tried both myself. Monovision wasn't bad. I put the near vision lens in my non-dominant eye. It was fine for day to day stuff, and for driving, but it was not at all optimal for flying. And it will not meet the FAA medical standards, you'd have to request a waiver. I also tried multifocal contact lenses. The multifocal approach requires a lot of "brain training". I stuck with it for a few weeks but just couldn't make it work, not even for day to day, ground based stuff. It was so bad I never tried it in the air at all.
I've also tried progressive lenses. Again, I did not care for them, although I can understand how some might prefer that, especially with the FAA requirement for older pilots to demonstrate visual acuity at both 16 and 32 inches distance.
For flying I still very much prefer a set of plain old bifocals with a line set a little lower than what might be normal. I can easily meet the FAA requirement for 20/40 at 16 inches using the lower section, and 32 inches with the upper section. I've got bifocal sunglasses, too. They are the cat's meow and I wear them for everything, not just flying.
Indeed, I've tried both myself. Monovision wasn't bad. I put the near vision lens in my non-dominant eye. It was fine for day to day stuff, and for driving, but it was not at all optimal for flying. And it will not meet the FAA medical standards, you'd have to request a waiver. I also tried multifocal contact lenses. The multifocal approach requires a lot of "brain training". I stuck with it for a few weeks but just couldn't make it work, not even for day to day, ground based stuff. It was so bad I never tried it in the air at all.
I've also tried progressive lenses. Again, I did not care for them, although I can understand how some might prefer that, especially with the FAA requirement for older pilots to demonstrate visual acuity at both 16 and 32 inches distance.
For flying I still very much prefer a set of plain old bifocals with a line set a little lower than what might be normal. I can easily meet the FAA requirement for 20/40 at 16 inches using the lower section, and 32 inches with the upper section. I've got bifocal sunglasses, too. They are the cat's meow and I wear them for everything, not just flying.
FWIW I recently had full replacement lens surgery and was flying within 2 weeks. My right eye is now 20/15. Caveat FAA land.
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Hi,
glasses are a pain in the a....
always some dust on it which irritates, you need to wear a cap to prevent rain and drizzle on them and the distance between eye and NVG needs to be increased - so the field of view decreases :-(
Also you need spare glasses, if they are added in your medical.
I use progressive glasses and started early with them, cause it takes time to get accustomed to. With less dioptrien itīs easier than starting later with more dioptrien.
Biggest problem for me was, that while wearing NVG part of the correction got covered - so the checklist on the lap was sharp, but viewing cross the cockpit to the moving map i.e. got somewhat blurry.
I adopted in that way, that I now have the NVG screwed as high as possible, just using the lower 2/3rds of the googles looking outside, while having the lower part of my glasses free, which allows me to use all of the progressive part. (High end progressive glasses - the cheaper ones have narrower areas to look through)
Tip for cleaning, especially if you get coated glasses - stay away from the pre soaked cleaning packs you can buy - they ruin the coating.
Just some (non remoistening) soap (litte) with warm running water for cleaning will do. Dry with kitchen paper towels (without print) ;-)
glasses are a pain in the a....
always some dust on it which irritates, you need to wear a cap to prevent rain and drizzle on them and the distance between eye and NVG needs to be increased - so the field of view decreases :-(
Also you need spare glasses, if they are added in your medical.
I use progressive glasses and started early with them, cause it takes time to get accustomed to. With less dioptrien itīs easier than starting later with more dioptrien.
Biggest problem for me was, that while wearing NVG part of the correction got covered - so the checklist on the lap was sharp, but viewing cross the cockpit to the moving map i.e. got somewhat blurry.
I adopted in that way, that I now have the NVG screwed as high as possible, just using the lower 2/3rds of the googles looking outside, while having the lower part of my glasses free, which allows me to use all of the progressive part. (High end progressive glasses - the cheaper ones have narrower areas to look through)
Tip for cleaning, especially if you get coated glasses - stay away from the pre soaked cleaning packs you can buy - they ruin the coating.
Just some (non remoistening) soap (litte) with warm running water for cleaning will do. Dry with kitchen paper towels (without print) ;-)
FB - I think its an urban myth that moving the NVG away from your eyes reduces the FOV - you only have about 40 deg FOV anyway and you are focussing your eyes on the screen inside the tube not what comes in at the far end of it.
I fly with mine quite far forward so that vision under them isn't impaired.
I fly with mine quite far forward so that vision under them isn't impaired.
Not sure if you need to flip/flop between NVD and unaided flight, but that was the most annoying aspect of using NVD and �� specs. Particularly if you need bifocal for distance and reading, but then couldn’t read the overhead panel switches!
Originally Posted by [email protected]
FB - I think its an urban myth that moving the NVG away from your eyes reduces the FOV - you only have about 40 deg FOV anyway and you are focussing your eyes on the screen inside the tube not what comes in at the far end of it.
I fly with mine quite far forward so that vision under them isn't impaired.
I fly with mine quite far forward so that vision under them isn't impaired.
further away the outer edges of the screen cant be seen anymore, hence less vision- more swiveling of the head needed
Thats about what I have left ...
Limited NVG view when forward with glasses and moved up due to them
FB - never had that problem - always set mine up further away than the standard 1 inch eye relief distance and can always see the full screen.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
FB - never had that problem - always set mine up further away than the standard 1 inch eye relief distance and can always see the full screen.
Yes, probably right about different setups - I don't wear glasses to look through the goggles and we set ours up on a Hoffman box before use, wearing the helmet so you can experiment with eye relief and focussing settings.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Yes, probably right about different setups - I don't wear glasses to look through the goggles and we set ours up on a Hoffman box before use, wearing the helmet so you can experiment with eye relief and focussing settings.
glasses are the problem with aging eyes ...
What is a Hoffmann Box? Never heard of before.
Can you give some more information please?
I adjust my googles on the way to the helicopter with some fine tuning in the cruise.
Bye the way, I designed and 3D printed covers for the lenses, which are easier to use then the ones delivered with the NVG 😏
Cover for NVG - 3D printed