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Fly N Reg on UK ATPL

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Fly N Reg on UK ATPL

Old 10th Sep 2019, 06:49
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Fly N Reg on UK ATPL

Dear Rotorheads,

I appreciate this has been asked time and again and having searched the forum thought I had the answer but then new info comes in and throws a spanner in the works.

Iím an EASA (UK) ATPL(H) holder and been asked to fly a N Reg Heli around the UK for reward. It was the owner who first told me about the ability to fly N Reg on your own national licence within the issuing authorities land boundaries.

A quick search backed up his information and I was all set to go ahead when a colleague mentioned that in fact this dispensation is really meant for Private Flying and on top of that, any legs over 50 miles would require both a FAA licence and IR regardless if thereís any intention to fly IFR.

There also seems to be conflicting information on just whatís required to attain a FAA ATP. I currently hold a FAA PPL Fixed Wing.

Any guidance and pointers on where to find the correct information will be greatly received. Thanks

whenever is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2019, 19:34
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Can't really say what license you need, but if you do need a FAA one, a CPL will be enough.
The requirement for an IR for cross country flights over 50nm (and night flights) is for airplanes (and powered lift category) only, not helicopters.

To get a FAA CPL, you need to pass the written and practical test. It would be the quickest and easiest choice.
To get your ATPL may be a bit more complicated, as it would require the IR in one way or another.
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TorqueStripe is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2019, 20:17
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Not 100% sure about the UK license side of things, but if you hold an ICAO CPL or ATPL and a valid instrument rating in heloís then it is a fairly simple process to gain your FAA ATP. You just need to have the requisite experience listed in part 61, submit for a license verification (which is valid for 6 months) and then take the ATP written and do a flight test.

Your FAA fixed wing PPL is kind of irrelevant to your situation altogether
havick is offline  
Old 10th Sep 2019, 20:50
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
Not 100% sure about the UK license side of things, but if you hold an ICAO CPL or ATPL and a valid instrument rating in heloís then it is a fairly simple process to gain your FAA ATP. You just need to have the requisite experience listed in part 61, submit for a license verification (which is valid for 6 months) and then take the ATP written and do a flight test.

Your FAA fixed wing PPL is kind of irrelevant to your situation altogether
While I would like to agree with you, the fact that he already holds a FAA PPL may be a hindrance to that.

Eg I tried to get my EASA ATPL(H) With 139 type rating "validated", but as I already held a FAA CPL/IR, they wouldn't let me. May depend on the FSDO though.
In the same situation now, on the fixed wing side. I have an FAA ATP rotorcraft, helicopter, with commercial and instrument privileges asel/amel.

Now that I have an EASA ATPL(A) with A320 Type Rating, it would be great to just be able to validate that... But so far no luck.
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Old 10th Sep 2019, 21:52
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You may want to look at CFR 14 Part 61.77 Special Purpose pilot certification: Operation of a civil aircraft of the United States and leased by a non-U.S. citizen.
Disregard, it only applies to aircraft with payload over 7,500lbs.

Last edited by tottigol; 11th Sep 2019 at 00:57.
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 02:14
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Originally Posted by TorqueStripe View Post
While I would like to agree with you, the fact that he already holds a FAA PPL may be a hindrance to that.

Eg I tried to get my EASA ATPL(H) With 139 type rating "validated", but as I already held a FAA CPL/IR, they wouldn't let me. May depend on the FSDO though.
In the same situation now, on the fixed wing side. I have an FAA ATP rotorcraft, helicopter, with commercial and instrument privileges asel/amel.

Now that I have an EASA ATPL(A) with A320 Type Rating, it would be great to just be able to validate that... But so far no luck.
Transport Canada are a lot more reasonable when it comes to adding foreign type ratings. FAA to TC and back is a paper exercise.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 04:01
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Originally Posted by TorqueStripe View Post
While I would like to agree with you, the fact that he already holds a FAA PPL may be a hindrance to that.

Eg I tried to get my EASA ATPL(H) With 139 type rating "validated", but as I already held a FAA CPL/IR, they wouldn't let me. May depend on the FSDO though.
In the same situation now, on the fixed wing side. I have an FAA ATP rotorcraft, helicopter, with commercial and instrument privileges asel/amel.

Now that I have an EASA ATPL(A) with A320 Type Rating, it would be great to just be able to validate that... But so far no luck.
we are talking about two different things. A license verification is different to a validation.
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 04:12
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TC might just be a paperwork exercise but good luck getting it done in under three months...

youíd need a TC medical which on initial issue has to be handwritten by one of three overworked elves that live on the dark side of the moon, and then only if they can get the special ink delivered. After it is mailed to you (comes hand delivered by a two-legged overweight tortoise) only then can you apply for any transfer exams you may need...

These are held in special licensing locations...on last check (April) the Vancouver office exam section was temporarily closed, Abbotsford was down for 9-11 months as examiner was on maternity leave and the waiting time just to sit an exam in Richmond was nearly two months. Kelowna are great and only had a three week wait...after waiting four months for the medical to arrive.

However, on reaching the successful achievement of the transfer exam and now having the holy gossamer of a TC medical booklet, you may start the validation of your foreign license. Your exam, copy of medical, logbook and foreign licenses are submitted to the large collapsed star (now black hole) that is the TC licensing division.

There is, at this point, a need to invest in several large packages of unicorn dust which you must liberally sprinkle on every email/letter/telephone/carrier pigeon with which you attempt to contact TC to find out what has happened to the documents that are awaiting the privilege of obtaining a TC stamp.

They contact the FAA, the FAA agree you have what you say you have and then....TC engage in a month long seance to find out if you have a healthy presence in the afterlife.

The good side is that as long as you have a type rating on another license and can show recent hours in the logbook on type, you can get that type transferred, it only costs a few pennies per type/rating.

bitterly yours....
westonblake is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 11:04
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Thanks for the replies so far although we seem to have opened the preverbal bag of worms.

Interesting that the 50 miles cross country doesnít apply to helicopters. So as such, I think Iím still good to fly the N Reg Aircraft with in the UK on my UK issues EASA Licence.
whenever is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 12:18
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Whenever,try contacting `Whopity` on the Instructors Forum by PM,you`ll probably find it`s only for PPL priveleges(off your ATPLH)ie no H&R....
Suggest you also read in `ACCIDENTS` about `Cardiff City footballer` about flying N reg in UK....
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 13:16
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Whenever
I have a sent you a PM
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 18:41
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I understand the regulations this way:


FAA license is required (flying an N-Registered aircraft).

But:

FAA also states that a license of the country where the aircraft is operated in might suffice (hence you only need an EASA license, medical and type rating.)

But:
Flying any aircraft within UK airspace, you have to comply with UK CAA requirements (not EASA).

Each CAA has agreements with the FAA (or not) regarding the operation of a foreign registered aircraft in their country... For the UK, this was written down in "Lasors".

I believe the current state is that if you want to operate a N registered aircraft commercially in the UK, you need both licenses-Faa and CAA..

To my knowledge, Germany for example does not have an agreement like this at all...
hueyracer is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 10:20
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N-reg aircraft cannot operate commercially based in UK...SEE#10
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 15:12
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"N" registered aircraft may be flown in a foreign country on a license issued by that country. You can fly it within the UK (only) with your UK issued license. You cannot fly it with the same EASA license if it was issued by a country other than the UK. To fly it in Ireland, you'd need a separate Irish license.
FAA 14 CFR 61.3(a)(vii)

Sounds like the aircraft is operated privately and not commercially on an AOC for reward or hire. What you as the pilot get out of it is between you and your priest. All the usual caveats apply (ref Cardiff footballer), but you gotta ask yourself what is wrong with the EASA/CAA system for such a proliferation of N registered aircraft being operated in Europe.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 16:21
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Just get a job as his personal assistant and then offer to fly for free .
nigelh is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 17:11
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Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
N-reg aircraft cannot operate commercially based in UK...SEE#10

Not true.

There are several N-registered aircrafts operating commercially in the UK....
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 00:01
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Another aspect, you'd want to submit your credentials to the aircraft insurer and have them accept the risk. If they accept, you're probably good to go. If not, they will say why. Not much point shooting the breeze here when the insurer could unravel everything.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 10:58
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Huey, perhaps you can elaborate on your last statement and supply details/N numbers etc...The only exemptions the CAA would grant would be for possibly specific types/role,ie K-Max,Skycrane,Mil26 etc for a specified period...not `touting for work`.
Read the Cardiff footballer thread about `grey` N-Reg chartering....
Are there any G-reg aircraft doing AOC work in USA...? No...FAA won`t allow it...
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 11:26
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He wasnít talking about charter . It could be corporate use with the pro pilot .
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 13:57
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There you go...

Helicopter Services UK & Europe
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