Hawaii, passenger jumps from a helicopter
I was dropping the Red Devils over Nicosia back in the 80s from 8000' in a Wessex when the team mistook a thumbs up from the jump leader (checking that one of his guys in the back was OK) for the pull smoke and jump signal.
They pulled the smoke and didn't jump.
In a Wessex, any smoke, smell or fumes from the cabin gets sucked straight up into the cockpit so I was IMC inside with red and blue smoke..........shouting at them to get the F out of my helicopter
They pulled the smoke and didn't jump.
In a Wessex, any smoke, smell or fumes from the cabin gets sucked straight up into the cockpit so I was IMC inside with red and blue smoke..........shouting at them to get the F out of my helicopter
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there is a video on youtube from inside the cabin of a JR/LR after a chute had been released inside the machine, and was almost going into the Main/Tail rotor.
after watching that i decided i would leave that stuff to guys with crews in the back and wings on their shoulders. having trained Airforce crew in the back and trained jumpers under a bit more control is the way to do that. Random guys that want the thrill of jumping from a helicopter doesn't do it for me, and obviously from the above, even with all the training they can still do something silly...
after watching that i decided i would leave that stuff to guys with crews in the back and wings on their shoulders. having trained Airforce crew in the back and trained jumpers under a bit more control is the way to do that. Random guys that want the thrill of jumping from a helicopter doesn't do it for me, and obviously from the above, even with all the training they can still do something silly...
Avoid imitations
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As the saying goes, you can try to make something idiot proof but then along comes a better class of idiot!
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
aa - I think you skydivers are barking mad jumping out of a serviceable aircraft but if that's what floats your boat
I've dropped plenty of parachutists from helicopters over the years but I still think it is tempting fate.
I've dropped plenty of parachutists from helicopters over the years but I still think it is tempting fate.But, back on thread, sort of: there is always a skewed perception of risk among the less knowledgeable. While it is difficult to make direct comparisons, your chance of dying on any given jump is not very different, and probably less, than on any given helicopter flight, on an individual basis, just looking at yearly fatality totals. So we are all crazy for leaving the ground regardless of what we might be doing when we do it. Another case in point: if I told you I was a motorcycle road racer, and I was for about a decade of my earlier life, all of you mad-for-motorcycles pilots would cheer me and possibly even be a bit jealous. But I can tell you I was far more concerned about dying doing that then skydiving. Indeed, my skydiving career also spanned roughly a decade. I never saw anyone die while skydiving and only saw one person get seriously injured (bad swoop landing--what else is new?) But I actually did see one person die when racing, and saw many, many people go the hospital with very serious injuries. So just because it looks stupid doesn't mean it is any more or less stupid than things that average people find more emotionally or intellectually accessible.
As the saying goes, you can try to make something idiot proof but then along comes a better class of idiot!
Or so I though until I heard about a soldier throwing himself out of the personnel door in the side of a Herc in the South Atlantic for a laugh! Fortunately the monkey-harness saved him!
Monkey proof is pretty well known.
In 2007 the Alfa male Gorilla escaped from his den in the Rotterdam Zoo.
Since then we have officially added the word Bokito_proof to our Dutch language.
In 2007 the Alfa male Gorilla escaped from his den in the Rotterdam Zoo.
Since then we have officially added the word Bokito_proof to our Dutch language.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Approach A: Start helicopter, fly over ocean, drop pax, get filmed, get reported to FAA for investigation, impress all the local professional operators who do this for a living.
Approach B: Call the FSDO, explain plan and safety measures (task experience and recce of drop site), drop pax, get filmed, FAA handle phone calls with full knowledge of the activity.
Unless you're an actual drama queen who loves the attention (you know who you are), then some PPP to prevent PPP never hurt anybody. There is a website for people who think the rules don't apply to them, its membership is always very popular...
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/month.aspx
Approach B: Call the FSDO, explain plan and safety measures (task experience and recce of drop site), drop pax, get filmed, FAA handle phone calls with full knowledge of the activity.
Unless you're an actual drama queen who loves the attention (you know who you are), then some PPP to prevent PPP never hurt anybody. There is a website for people who think the rules don't apply to them, its membership is always very popular...
https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/month.aspx
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If anything they broke the rule of common sense. Jumping from >20ft into murky water. Punishment for such actions will not come from the FAA but from fate.
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And, last but not least...
Everyone dies. But not everyone really lives.
When that guy got behind the controls he became accountable for the well-being of those onboard, it's one of those annoying responsibilities that comes with the job.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
If you want to go hurt yourself or others, then rather do it in a way that won't push up insurance for the rest of us or result in stiffer regulatory control by continuing to annoy the public who don't give a Monkey's nuts for whether or not it's legal.
Whatever happened to airmanship?
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That pilot's airmanship was just fine. And I'm willing to bet quite a few beers the gentleman who jumped was not pushed.
But..are you saying that helicopter pilots should no longer take people into potentially dangerous conditions? So no more heli-skiiing for instance? No more parachute jumps or skydives? How and why can you draw the line between something like those things and something this? They are the same thing.
I will agree that the location was suspect, but only in a political context, because of the currently hostile political climate towards ANY helicopter operations in that part of Hawaii. But from the perspective of intrinsic personal responsibility and "airmanship" (if that latter even applies), no, I'm never going to agree that this was a bad op based on the available video evidence.
I am sick to death of being nanny-stated to death (I guess they are going to get me either way, then!) Just because somebody thinks it's a bad thing doesn't mean I think it's a bad thing. You are free to tell me I'm an idiot (and I think you did, but very politely
), but don't legislate my compliance due to your fears when there is absolutely no public safety issue.
To perhaps drift this thread in a slightly different, less controversial direction, clearly they've got some hate from the planet-bound over high density helicopter op's in Hawaii. The same is happening in Long Island right now (see my other topic). Local to me, in the past couple of years we've seen a fine restaurant that was helicopter friendly close its helipad, and a small local airport restrict helicopter operations. Are helicopter operations becoming so much more prevalent that they are becoming a nuisance? Is it now too easy, and affordable, for someone to get an R44, or an FAA LOA for tour op's, or even a Part 135 certificate?
But..are you saying that helicopter pilots should no longer take people into potentially dangerous conditions? So no more heli-skiiing for instance? No more parachute jumps or skydives? How and why can you draw the line between something like those things and something this? They are the same thing.
I will agree that the location was suspect, but only in a political context, because of the currently hostile political climate towards ANY helicopter operations in that part of Hawaii. But from the perspective of intrinsic personal responsibility and "airmanship" (if that latter even applies), no, I'm never going to agree that this was a bad op based on the available video evidence.
I am sick to death of being nanny-stated to death (I guess they are going to get me either way, then!) Just because somebody thinks it's a bad thing doesn't mean I think it's a bad thing. You are free to tell me I'm an idiot (and I think you did, but very politely
), but don't legislate my compliance due to your fears when there is absolutely no public safety issue.To perhaps drift this thread in a slightly different, less controversial direction, clearly they've got some hate from the planet-bound over high density helicopter op's in Hawaii. The same is happening in Long Island right now (see my other topic). Local to me, in the past couple of years we've seen a fine restaurant that was helicopter friendly close its helipad, and a small local airport restrict helicopter operations. Are helicopter operations becoming so much more prevalent that they are becoming a nuisance? Is it now too easy, and affordable, for someone to get an R44, or an FAA LOA for tour op's, or even a Part 135 certificate?
Let them do it once without protest and they will surely do it again and again - personal freedom comes with personal responsibilities, one of which is respect for others.
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The flip side of this is respect for other people's freedom. Something that has been eroding for decades in US society, and which is accelerating here at a frightening rate. It is, of course, already long gone in most other "western" countries. It is unsurprising to find such attitudes on this list, which is really more world-centric (if not UK-centric) than US-centric.
Indeed, I was flying a couple of gents from Ireland the other day, one load on the ride concession we were operating out of a local fairground. They were immensely surprised that we could pretty much fly and land where we wanted, needing only permission of the landowner. When I was resting between shifts a couple from Greece chatted me up on the ground and made the exact same observations.
One needs to constantly push back against any encroachments on freedom. Sometimes the "system" helps you. I put an FAA registered heliport on my property (it is a very large property, well in excess of 20 acres) so that if the fearful haters ever decide to vote in zoning regulations that outlaw aircraft operations in my town I will be grandfathered (that's how the law works around these parts).
I respect my neighbor's freedoms. A little target practice? No problem. A few fireworks? The same. Keeping some pigs, or horses, or dogs, or chickens, and maybe one escaped onto my property? No problem, but that pig sure was tasty (just kidding
) I don't try to legislate their freedom to do these things away. Because, you know, I just might want to do the same things myself someday. And everyone gets helicopter rides, of course! But that was just gilding the lily because the traffic noise around here is actually worse then the noise I make with the helicopter.
But I know I'm a dinosaur, headed for extinction. There are too many other people who want to decide what I can do, how I can act, what I can say, and they are, sadly, winning. I could wax poetic as to why and how, but I'm already so far off track in this topic I better just stop typing. In the meantime I moved ten years ago to what will likely be one of the last bastions of freedom in the US. The only question now is whether or not this last bastion will last until I die a natural death.
Indeed, I was flying a couple of gents from Ireland the other day, one load on the ride concession we were operating out of a local fairground. They were immensely surprised that we could pretty much fly and land where we wanted, needing only permission of the landowner. When I was resting between shifts a couple from Greece chatted me up on the ground and made the exact same observations.
One needs to constantly push back against any encroachments on freedom. Sometimes the "system" helps you. I put an FAA registered heliport on my property (it is a very large property, well in excess of 20 acres) so that if the fearful haters ever decide to vote in zoning regulations that outlaw aircraft operations in my town I will be grandfathered (that's how the law works around these parts).
I respect my neighbor's freedoms. A little target practice? No problem. A few fireworks? The same. Keeping some pigs, or horses, or dogs, or chickens, and maybe one escaped onto my property? No problem, but that pig sure was tasty (just kidding
) I don't try to legislate their freedom to do these things away. Because, you know, I just might want to do the same things myself someday. And everyone gets helicopter rides, of course! But that was just gilding the lily because the traffic noise around here is actually worse then the noise I make with the helicopter.But I know I'm a dinosaur, headed for extinction. There are too many other people who want to decide what I can do, how I can act, what I can say, and they are, sadly, winning. I could wax poetic as to why and how, but I'm already so far off track in this topic I better just stop typing. In the meantime I moved ten years ago to what will likely be one of the last bastions of freedom in the US. The only question now is whether or not this last bastion will last until I die a natural death.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Let them do it once without protest and they will surely do it again and again - personal freedom comes with personal responsibilities, one of which is respect for others.
If someone wants to take on risk, that really is their business if it affects no one else.
That is more challenging in regulated and structured environments like aviation.
I don't know what is commonplace in the US, if people leaping out of every Robbie (or any other make for that matter) is the norm, that is y'all business.
In less civilised parts of the world you need training, approval or permissions to lob anything out of an aircraft.
That isn't because of the nanny state, it is because time has shown that with impromptu, dicking-about in an aircraft, eventually someone gets hurt.
Personally I consider good airmanship to be a bit more than if something is legal, or not. A poor choice of location and wobbly correction of a sudden change in lateral CoG doesn't help change that view.
This isn't a video that will help improve the reputation of Robbie drivers, no matter how much one does protest.
aa - the problem with your viewpoint is that it only works if you are 20 acres away from your next neighbour - very few people have that luxury nowadays in most parts of the world.
Try applying your 'freedoms' (perhaps read selfish behaviour) in a place with higher population density and problems will occur.
just because someone expects you to pay taxes and play by some pretty fair rules? You really don't know just how good you have got it.
Try applying your 'freedoms' (perhaps read selfish behaviour) in a place with higher population density and problems will occur.
The flip side of this is respect for other people's freedom. Something that has been eroding for decades in US society, and which is accelerating here at a frightening rate.
Have you swam there? I lived in Hawaii 7 years, the water is clear most of the time.
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VERY well said, and I totally agree.
Absolutely no US laws or regulations were broken. This is no different than skydiving.
