Vietnam 1970-1971
12,000 Canadians served in combat in Vietnam.
"Stolen Valor" might make some interesting reading for some.
What puzzles me is "Old Dogs" claims to be a Canadian, holds views that are antagonistic to American military involvement in Southeast Asia and other places, says he witnessed the wanton murder of a Mother and her two children by someone using a .50 Caliber Machine gun done right in front of him......but yet he does not tell us how he saw that done, what unit he was serving with,or even what country he saw it happen in, or if he reported what he describes as a War Crime.
Yet he wants us to think him credible.
I think not.
I can be persuaded but it will take more than bragging about Oliver Stone's cinematic talents to accomplish that.
What puzzles me is "Old Dogs" claims to be a Canadian, holds views that are antagonistic to American military involvement in Southeast Asia and other places, says he witnessed the wanton murder of a Mother and her two children by someone using a .50 Caliber Machine gun done right in front of him......but yet he does not tell us how he saw that done, what unit he was serving with,or even what country he saw it happen in, or if he reported what he describes as a War Crime.
Yet he wants us to think him credible.
I think not.
I can be persuaded but it will take more than bragging about Oliver Stone's cinematic talents to accomplish that.
Last edited by SASless; 5th Aug 2019 at 04:00.
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"Stolen Valor" might make some interesting reading for some.
What puzzles me is "Old Dogs" claims to be a Canadian, holds views that are antagonistic to American military involvement in Southeast Asia and other places, says he witnessed the wanton murder of a Mother and her two children by someone using a .50 Caliber Machine gun done right in front of him......but yet he does not tell us how he saw that done, what unit he was serving with,or even what country he saw it happen in, or if he reported what he describes as a War Crime.
Yet he wants us to think him credible.
I think not.
I can be persuaded but it will take more than bragging about Oliver Stone's cinematic talents to accomplish that.
What puzzles me is "Old Dogs" claims to be a Canadian, holds views that are antagonistic to American military involvement in Southeast Asia and other places, says he witnessed the wanton murder of a Mother and her two children by someone using a .50 Caliber Machine gun done right in front of him......but yet he does not tell us how he saw that done, what unit he was serving with,or even what country he saw it happen in, or if he reported what he describes as a War Crime.
Yet he wants us to think him credible.
I think not.
I can be persuaded but it will take more than bragging about Oliver Stone's cinematic talents to accomplish that.
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"Stolen Valor" might make some interesting reading for some.
What puzzles me is "Old Dogs" claims to be a Canadian, holds views that are antagonistic to American military involvement in Southeast Asia and other places, says he witnessed the wanton murder of a Mother and her two children by someone using a .50 Caliber Machine gun done right in front of him......but yet he does not tell us how he saw that done, what unit he was serving with,or even what country he saw it happen in, or if he reported what he describes as a War Crime.
Yet he wants us to think him credible.
I think not.
I can be persuaded but it will take more than bragging about Oliver Stone's cinematic talents to accomplish that.
What puzzles me is "Old Dogs" claims to be a Canadian, holds views that are antagonistic to American military involvement in Southeast Asia and other places, says he witnessed the wanton murder of a Mother and her two children by someone using a .50 Caliber Machine gun done right in front of him......but yet he does not tell us how he saw that done, what unit he was serving with,or even what country he saw it happen in, or if he reported what he describes as a War Crime.
Yet he wants us to think him credible.
I think not.
I can be persuaded but it will take more than bragging about Oliver Stone's cinematic talents to accomplish that.
Get back to us. Plenty of history starting with the humble employee of a Boston hotel in the early 20th Century.
The French were the ones who first pissed the Vietnamese off as a colonial occupying power - then what started as a civil war was backed on one side by the Communists and the other by the West.
Crab....actually it was the Chinese way long before the French but the French did a complete job of annoying the Vietnamese.
Our POW's spent a lot of time in old French Prisons under the same conditions the French held the Vietnamese.
Odd....the Vietnamese are quite friendly to Americans now.....but still harbor really bad feelings towards the French.
You do recall the Brits stayed awhile in Vietnam at the end of WWII along with the Japanese and engaged in combat against the Viet Minh (Communists) later to be the NVA.
There is far more history there than many wish to admit.
Our POW's spent a lot of time in old French Prisons under the same conditions the French held the Vietnamese.
Odd....the Vietnamese are quite friendly to Americans now.....but still harbor really bad feelings towards the French.
You do recall the Brits stayed awhile in Vietnam at the end of WWII along with the Japanese and engaged in combat against the Viet Minh (Communists) later to be the NVA.
There is far more history there than many wish to admit.
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Not the entire history but a good start
If you want a good overview of what led to and happened in the 60-70’s, you could do worse than Ken Burns’ documentary.
https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80997770
Mark Bowden’s ‘Hue -1968’ is another great read (IMHO) and is in the same league as his other great books - of which there are many.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34928902-hu-1968
https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80997770
Mark Bowden’s ‘Hue -1968’ is another great read (IMHO) and is in the same league as his other great books - of which there are many.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34928902-hu-1968
Thread Starter
Crab....actually it was the Chinese way long before the French but the French did a complete job of annoying the Vietnamese.
Our POW's spent a lot of time in old French Prisons under the same conditions the French held the Vietnamese.
Odd....the Vietnamese are quite friendly to Americans now.....but still harbor really bad feelings towards the French.
You do recall the Brits stayed awhile in Vietnam at the end of WWII along with the Japanese and engaged in combat against the Viet Minh (Communists) later to be the NVA.
There is far more history there than many wish to admit.
Our POW's spent a lot of time in old French Prisons under the same conditions the French held the Vietnamese.
Odd....the Vietnamese are quite friendly to Americans now.....but still harbor really bad feelings towards the French.
You do recall the Brits stayed awhile in Vietnam at the end of WWII along with the Japanese and engaged in combat against the Viet Minh (Communists) later to be the NVA.
There is far more history there than many wish to admit.
Basic difference between us and the French in Indochina was they wanted to keep it all as a Colony....and miffed the entire bunch while we did not intend to stay and only miffed half of them until we pulled out then we miffed the other half but appeased the first. half.
After sacrificing many young men for the sake of Macarthyism paranoia about the rise of communism and having successive Presidents lie to the American people about what was happening there.
Politicians the world over have a lot to answer for.
Politicians the world over have a lot to answer for.
Not so much a helicopter theme but requests for war stories about Vietnam so not surprising it has drifted somewhat
War Story.....you want a War Story.....well here is a War Story for you!
Vietnam, Chinook crew, mission to move Vietnamese Rice farmers to/from rice fields including their food, water, tools, and Water Buffalo's for pulling plows.
US Army good planning included an Army Veterinarian to assist in the handling of the Water Buffalo's.
Plan had the Vet injecting tranquilizers into the critters....then we used the Winch on the aircraft to drag the animals up the ramp and into the cabin of the aircraft.
At the DZ we would use a Jeep to drag the animals off the aircraft.
What could possibly go wrong.....right?
About halfway to the DZ....Buff woke up and decided to go elsewhere as he had heard about Chinooks or something,
He was half awake....probably had a Migraine from the drugs....and his hearing was causing him some problems....and perhaps was feeling a bit queasy from the drugs and motion of the aircraft....not to mention his scraped hide from being dragged into the aircraft.
Plainly.....he was not a happy camper.
As he sought a way out of his predicament....he developed an attitude....a decidedly aggressive attitude.
It is possible to get five people into the cockpit of the Chinook.
The Door Gunner....last man in the queue to the Cockpit yells....."I am gonna shoot him!" and draws his Colt 1911 .45 Pistol.
The Flight Engineer yells to the Gunner (knowing about the armored plated forehead of a Buffalo)....."Don't shoot him in the front of his Head....." BANG!
Now we have a really upset Buffalo intent upon getting into the cockpit along with the Crew.
After a bit the Buff went to the Ramp and tried to jump but got hung up on the plumbing.
We landed at the DZ....removed the Buff....by acting like Rodeo Clowns and sent him on his way.
Thence forward.....we used cargo nets to haul the Plow Pullers.
Vietnam, Chinook crew, mission to move Vietnamese Rice farmers to/from rice fields including their food, water, tools, and Water Buffalo's for pulling plows.
US Army good planning included an Army Veterinarian to assist in the handling of the Water Buffalo's.
Plan had the Vet injecting tranquilizers into the critters....then we used the Winch on the aircraft to drag the animals up the ramp and into the cabin of the aircraft.
At the DZ we would use a Jeep to drag the animals off the aircraft.
What could possibly go wrong.....right?
About halfway to the DZ....Buff woke up and decided to go elsewhere as he had heard about Chinooks or something,
He was half awake....probably had a Migraine from the drugs....and his hearing was causing him some problems....and perhaps was feeling a bit queasy from the drugs and motion of the aircraft....not to mention his scraped hide from being dragged into the aircraft.
Plainly.....he was not a happy camper.
As he sought a way out of his predicament....he developed an attitude....a decidedly aggressive attitude.
It is possible to get five people into the cockpit of the Chinook.
The Door Gunner....last man in the queue to the Cockpit yells....."I am gonna shoot him!" and draws his Colt 1911 .45 Pistol.
The Flight Engineer yells to the Gunner (knowing about the armored plated forehead of a Buffalo)....."Don't shoot him in the front of his Head....." BANG!
Now we have a really upset Buffalo intent upon getting into the cockpit along with the Crew.
After a bit the Buff went to the Ramp and tried to jump but got hung up on the plumbing.
We landed at the DZ....removed the Buff....by acting like Rodeo Clowns and sent him on his way.
Thence forward.....we used cargo nets to haul the Plow Pullers.
Three weeks prior to the 1st Cav first big engagement that resulted in the we Were Soldiers book and movie, the 33rd NVA Regt surrounded the Special Forces Camp at Plei Me. They had wounded and the morning after the attack started, our one Dustoff from the 498th piloted by Bill Carrol headed down along with two escort gunships from our unit. One of the gunships was shot down, crashing into the brush just off the south side of the generally east/west dirt strip alongside the camp. All perished. The other gunship, flown by my hootchmate Bob Wright limped back to Camp Holloway, never to be flown again. But, mission accomplished-the NVA didn’t down the Dustoff. In the following after action report, there is a statistic stating that the loss rate for Dustoff aircraft was 3.3 times the overall helicopter loss rate in Vietnam*. They had large red crosses on them.
* see link below. The Dustoff stories in Vietnam would make for quite an anthology, but perhaps far too much courage under fire combined with naked, altruistic patriotism for Mr. Stone.
The USAF and finally a relief column conspired to make it too costly for the 33rd regt and they pulled off, retreating toward a juncture with the two other NVA Regiments that would joint in the Ia Drang battles.
As the USAF kept on their heels, one of the A-1E’s was shot down NW of Plei me and I had to take their CO down to get the pilots dog tags. Bob Wright and another gunship accompanied me. Landing about 200m from the crash site, I dispatched my gunner to escort the CO. And sat on the ground. After they had gone for 10 minutes or so, Bob called up to tell me that there was a column of about 150 soldiers in tan uniforms marching at a 90 degree angle to my tail and about 150 meters behind.n Now, no one in the South Vietnamese Army, Marines or Paratroops wore tan khaki. BUT we had rules of engagement, so Bob climbs to 5000 ft, and calls II Corps HQ for permission to shoot. Permission not granted. He comes back on freq and tells me he can’t shoot but the khaki uniforms are continuing away. CO returns with my gunner and off we go, but those 150 troops were untouched, when they should have been laid out in eternal sleep. Two days before LZ X-ray. Four days before LZ Albany.
Separate note re McCarthyism; it has always amazed me that the president who ended our involvement in Vietnam seems to get the most flack, whereas the President who started it, John F. Kennedy, and the one who transformed it into something major, Lyndon Johnson, get a free ride.
https://history.army.mil/html/books/...ub_90-28-1.pdf
* see link below. The Dustoff stories in Vietnam would make for quite an anthology, but perhaps far too much courage under fire combined with naked, altruistic patriotism for Mr. Stone.
The USAF and finally a relief column conspired to make it too costly for the 33rd regt and they pulled off, retreating toward a juncture with the two other NVA Regiments that would joint in the Ia Drang battles.
As the USAF kept on their heels, one of the A-1E’s was shot down NW of Plei me and I had to take their CO down to get the pilots dog tags. Bob Wright and another gunship accompanied me. Landing about 200m from the crash site, I dispatched my gunner to escort the CO. And sat on the ground. After they had gone for 10 minutes or so, Bob called up to tell me that there was a column of about 150 soldiers in tan uniforms marching at a 90 degree angle to my tail and about 150 meters behind.n Now, no one in the South Vietnamese Army, Marines or Paratroops wore tan khaki. BUT we had rules of engagement, so Bob climbs to 5000 ft, and calls II Corps HQ for permission to shoot. Permission not granted. He comes back on freq and tells me he can’t shoot but the khaki uniforms are continuing away. CO returns with my gunner and off we go, but those 150 troops were untouched, when they should have been laid out in eternal sleep. Two days before LZ X-ray. Four days before LZ Albany.
Separate note re McCarthyism; it has always amazed me that the president who ended our involvement in Vietnam seems to get the most flack, whereas the President who started it, John F. Kennedy, and the one who transformed it into something major, Lyndon Johnson, get a free ride.
https://history.army.mil/html/books/...ub_90-28-1.pdf
Last edited by JohnDixson; 6th Aug 2019 at 14:46. Reason: Added thought, punctuation
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