Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

Old 6th Jul 2019, 00:45
  #21 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 822
Received 228 Likes on 71 Posts



KiwiNedNZ is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 01:13
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Zone of Alienation
Age: 79
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don’t know about helicopters, but are the landing gear supposed to be down after takeoff?
FIRESYSOK is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 01:58
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FIRESYSOK
I don’t know about helicopters, but are the landing gear supposed to be down after takeoff?
Normally raised at 80 Kts (VY) & 200’ in the 139 on takeoff and selected down in the before landing cx list.
belly tank is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 02:13
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asia
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
All the bells and whistles and 2 pilots and it looks like they hit at very high speed and at a very steep angle. Very very sad.

What was that aircraft equpped with that will help out investigators.
Sikpilot is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 02:14
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
A telling photo would be of the back-end, see if the tail rotor is still in place. Nothing much to conclude from the wheels being down, reports suggest it was found in the water not far from departure point. No floats installed in this one, right? I don't see the MGB or any MR hub/blades, I doubt it separated in-flight as the hull damage is too minimal.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 04:35
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: daworld
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by gulliBell
A telling photo would be of the back-end, see if the tail rotor is still in place. Nothing much to conclude from the wheels being down, reports suggest it was found in the water not far from departure point. No floats installed in this one, right? I don't see the MGB or any MR hub/blades, I doubt it separated in-flight as the hull damage is too minimal.
Why would the TR not be in place?

It left London Air with floats and the photo above on the ramp after getting N registered shows floats, so unless they were recently removed they should still be on there.

It looks to me like it is resting on the MR Head, with MGB in place and I can see the #2 engine as well. FDR will tell the story.
noooby is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 04:42
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
If it's thrown a TR blade it would end up in the water...it's happened before.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 05:36
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,953
Received 12 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by gulliBell
If it's thrown a TR blade it would end up in the water...it's happened before.
It had the newer, ‘3 band’ TR blades. Not the older, ‘2 band’ blades.
Bravo73 is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 06:57
  #29 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 822
Received 228 Likes on 71 Posts

KiwiNedNZ is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 07:06
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Well the tail rotor is obviously not there, neither is the tail boom. With all the damage upstairs I wonder if it's gone in upside down? Inverted, submerged, at night: that's a tough scenario to escape from.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 10:47
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London/Atlanta
Posts: 444
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
If earlier comments prove to be correct, 2.00AM flight, transponder off, no flight logged etc Will this become yet another example of pilot/pilots being pressured to take a flight by the big boss that really shouldn’t have been taken?
nomorehelosforme is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 12:09
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yorkshire uk
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
But regardless of rules surely a night flight across water with no objects to bump into should be safe in s 139 ??? I don’t think having transponder on would have made a difference...
nigelh is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 13:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asia
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Were both pilots IFR rated? Either pilot ex military?
Sikpilot is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 13:25
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: florida
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nigelh
But regardless of rules surely a night flight across water with no objects to bump into should be safe in s 139 ??? I don’t think having transponder on would have made a difference...
Sadly, night flights over water, especially on an exceptionally dark starless night is the deepest IFR you'll ever fly. No visual reference and very dangerous on the initial transition from over land to over water. Extremely challenging for even very experienced pilots. Must stay current IFR, also night and over water night conditions.
sea plane is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:14
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,289
Received 608 Likes on 266 Posts
2am - right at the bottom of the circadian low - perhaps an urgency to the flight if the report of an illness is correct, 2 pilots with perhaps no exposure to EMS/SAR decision making/risk assessment procedures and a fatal crash very soon after take-off.

It is too easy to join the dots but unless a mechanical failure can be proven, this could turn out to be another very avoidable accident.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:16
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yorkshire uk
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Can’t believe a billionaire would not have IFR pilots on his 139 .....
nigelh is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:21
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Can't believe a billionaire would take the floats off his helicopter (if that is what happened).
gulliBell is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:24
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 75
Posts: 18,267
Received 467 Likes on 191 Posts
For all of that structural damage....it was not a soft impact.

Question for the 139 drivers.....How are the floats actuated on the 139?

Any Saltwater switches or Float Valve Switches that will trigger the floats automatically....if the system is armed?

Are there indications in the photos that give a clue as to whether the floats inflated or not?
SASless is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:35
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiNedNZ
Tottigol - My info is accurate - have known Geoff for a long time. Was chatting with him only a couple of days ago. He is the primary pilot for Chris on the 139. I am pretty sure its a 2 person crew and have no idea who the other crew was.
Dave Jude was the primary pilot and aviation dept manager, Geoff and a few others were contract pilots. Aircraft was usually flown single pilot day VFR by Dave.
S76wireguy is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 14:37
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Australia sometimes
Posts: 103
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by SASless
For all of that structural damage....it was not a soft impact.

Question for the 139 drivers.....How are the floats actuated on the 139?

Any Saltwater switches or Float Valve Switches that will trigger the floats automatically....if the system is armed?

Are there indications in the photos that give a clue as to whether the floats inflated or not?
The floats are armed for over-water flights ... they activate via float valve switches situated in the MLG wells.

I see nothing in these photos to indicate any float inflation. The Fwd bags are housed below the cockpit doors & the Aft bags below the baggage bay.

I'm aware that some operations discourage arming floats on the AW139 during cruise .... despite the RFM calling for this .... just saying.
Scattercat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.