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AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

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AW139 Crash in Bahamas - 7 Killed

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Old 30th Jul 2019, 11:46
  #421 (permalink)  
 
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At "faa.gov", you can search the data base for his license details.

I just did so and exactly one entry using "David Jude" is returned.

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Old 30th Jul 2019, 11:53
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Originally Posted by SASless
At "faa.gov", you can search the data base for his license details.

I just did so and exactly one entry using "David Jude" is returned.
thanks, their system was down yesterday when I tried it.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 12:20
  #423 (permalink)  
 
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Excuse my ignorance, but what does the C/ mean in the FAA C/AW-139 type rating, and what does the A/ mean in the A/AW-139 type rating?
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 12:21
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We have seen another Helicopter Manufacturer issue such public statements in the past.....and it later turn out they. had a major problem in the design of their aircraft.

How much credence can we put into Leonardo's Statement?

If it is credible and based upon the results of the examination of the wreckage.....then that would point a finger directly at the Crew as the weather was benign.

Has any more information surfaced about their backgrounds, training, medical history of the crew, and their 139 experience been made public?

Anything that would put into question their fitness for that particular flight or climatic conditions (dark, over water, lack of horizon....etc).
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 12:27
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Originally Posted by twisted wrench
Latest letter issued from Leonardo, does not appear they think there was any mechanical failure !!

Following AW139 accident that occurred near Big Grand Cay Island, Bahamas on July 4th, 2019, Leonardo Helicopters immediately dispatched a team to offer support to the recovery and investigation and continues to work closely with
the Investigating Authorities.
At this point, Leonardo Helicopters do not. envisage the need to take any airworthiness actions as a result of present investigation outcomes
Hmmm...three weeks since the accident and the manufacturer has been on-site and there's been no emergency AD. Maybe Leonardo knows more than all the acronym experts on this thread.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 12:28
  #426 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
Excuse my ignorance, but what does the C/ mean in the FAA C/AW-139 type rating, and what does the A/ mean in the A/AW-139 type rating?
A/ = ATPL
C/ = CPL
P/ = PPL
(source FAA.)
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 12:58
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There is another very hypothetical possible cause factor which fits the little pictorial and other public media and preliminary report evidence available.
Background: the AW139 rotorhead incorporates leading edge pitch control horns i.e., the push rods are attached on the blade leading edge side. Same as the CH-53E.
The 1996 CH-53E fatal accident on the first hover of a standard production machine was traced to a bearing failure ( caused by a manufacturing defect in the supplied bearing ) in the rotating swashplate. One can easily imagine the rotating swashplate slowing down and the effect on rotor control. Those words imply it happened gradually, but the final bearing failure happened quickly and part of the result was that the blades chopped the tail off, while the remainder of the machine descended vertically from the 150-200 ft where they had been hovering. I had been walking toward the rear of the pilot office ( which has a somewhat cut-off view of the field ) and heard three distinct thumps, turned around and caught a glimpse of the machine before it disappeared behind a storage shack. The rear tail section was separated.
I’d imagine the NTSB will as a matter of course look at the swashplate bearing and ensure it still moves freely.
PS: the reason I used thee term “very hypothetical” is because the difficulties involved in design/manufacture and QA on a huge swashplate bearing as on the 53E are quite different than on much smaller vehicles.

Last edited by JohnDixson; 30th Jul 2019 at 15:01. Reason: additional information
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 13:00
  #428 (permalink)  
 
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So if you have a CPL with C/AW-139 type rating, and then you get an ATPL, the type rating will be changed to A/AW-139? Even if you didn't do the ATPL practical test in a AW-139?
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 13:26
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Could it be that the reason for the CPL Type rating is the applicant had insufficient hours to qualify for the ATPL or had not passed the Written Exam for the ATPL, but passed the same Practical Test (Check Ride) as he would have had he the ATPL?

Perhaps someone currently conducting FAA Type Rating practical tests can explain how the procedure works so we can all understand the nuances of Type Ratings under the FAA system.

Ask and you shall receive.......from a friend still active in the business out in the wilds of Louisiana....still doing this stuff.

\Training under part 142 follows specified standards.
The Training Curriculum is listed in the Training Center Manual approved by the FAA assigned TCPM
All type-ratings are issued to ATPL Standards and follow the relative Practical Test Standards.

The PTS are to become amended to ACSs and follow new standards
in accordance with 61.58 Proficiency Check requirements and applies to
ALL type ratings.

Last edited by SASless; 30th Jul 2019 at 18:51.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 00:54
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Originally Posted by twisted wrench
Latest letter issued from Leonardo, does not appear they think there was any mechanical failure !!

Following AW139 accident that occurred near Big Grand Cay Island, Bahamas on July 4th, 2019, Leonardo Helicopters immediately dispatched a team to offer support to the recovery and investigation and continues to work closely with the Investigating Authorities.
At this point, Leonardo Helicopters do not envisage the need to take any airworthiness actions as a result of present investigation outcomes
Notwithstanding SASless’s point, the lack of concern about airworthiness action doesn’t necessarily mean there wasn’t mechanical failure. Consider preexisting damage or maintenance, for example.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 16:39
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I think this ones just going to be as simple as the flew it into the water.
Hard to take it for some but **** happens.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 16:45
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Originally Posted by MS29513-017
I think this ones just going to be as simple as the flew it into the water.
Hard to take it for some but **** happens.
This. All these rare mechanical failures are discussed but 85% of the time it's pilot error per the insurance industry.
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 12:56
  #433 (permalink)  
 
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Without going into why I ask this question.....but is there reliable/credible information to describe the reputation/record/quality/complaint record of Cloud Nine LLC's operation and business standards?

I have found one FAA Action taken on "2014WP230061" dated 01/18/13 which resulted in the Suspension of Cloud Nine LLC's Operator Certificate (no Fine/Penalty shown) with a closing date of 08/01/14.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 16:51
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Nothing further? Was expecting to have heard a bit more by now...
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 17:29
  #435 (permalink)  
 
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Well, the 139 hasn’t been grounded and there haven’t been any ADs or SDs issued. Read into that what you want...
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 17:45
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Exactly. All this BS about the tailboom being found 500 ft from fuselage (according to whom? Not NTSB), and a t/r blade separating in flight, and an eyewitness 1.6 miles away (at night) counting the fuselage making THREE ROTATIONS TO THE LEFT. I think after almost 2 months of NTSB and Leonardo poring over dynamic components and no emergency AD, we know what happened.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 19:28
  #437 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by UKExpat
Nothing further? Was expecting to have heard a bit more by now...
With the NTSB Preliminary Report already out last month, it will be at least 12-18 months before anything else will "officially" come out. And it can possibly be longer due to it technically is still under Bahamian jurisdiction even though the NTSB accepted delegation authority. But as noted above, if there was/is an urgent aircraft issue the OEMs usually issue documents way before any official reports.

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Old 25th Aug 2019, 20:50
  #438 (permalink)  
 
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Spray,

The lights wet from right to left, not the fuselage. If tail lights that is consistent with loss of tail rotor thrust. After the early problems with the t/r blades the new blades are probably so over designed that a repeat is not even being considered. If the data/wreckage shows no drivetrain issue you are down to t/r bird strike or FOD as the likely cause.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 00:41
  #439 (permalink)  
 
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Just throwing this out there. Has there ben confirmation of who was occupying the pilot and co-pilot seats?
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 00:46
  #440 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by garsr1
Just throwing this out there. Has there ben confirmation of who was occupying the pilot and co-pilot seats?
That happened early on, as people were still strapped in their seats.
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