Private Landing Site UK - What Legislation ?
I have been reading this thread with interest,even tho I have had to battle through unwanted and unsolicited adverts all the way( administrators ...can't you do something about that?).Anyway I totally agree with the majority of positive comments you have received....provided there is no fixed structure you don't need planning permission...nor if the landing area is used for not more than 28 days a year, and if more it can be argued it's incidental to the use of the premises ( although usually that applies to the land owner who uses a helicopter as others use their car...both are transport.There are plenty of examples in the BHA handbook of hotels and other venues that accept helicopters on this basis....and did you know military helicopters are exempt ?!
It would be interesting to know the council (pm me?) as that could be enlightening. With the need for money quite a few councils are using pre application advice as a means of charging potential planning applicants for comments ...even when the answer is obvious!
It would be interesting to know the council (pm me?) as that could be enlightening. With the need for money quite a few councils are using pre application advice as a means of charging potential planning applicants for comments ...even when the answer is obvious!
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your replies - I will try and answer each persons questions :-
misterbonkers - the landing spot is 250m away from a building and I could land an airliner in there. It's also in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing around the venue either except green fields. I'm happy with the site and certainly landed in similiar and smaller hundred's of times. I'd rather not mention the venue except to say it's an established wedding and function venue on the Wirrall. I've contacted the Council and pretty much had an argument with them because they refuse to commit eithert way without me paying £150 and submitting a pre planning application - ludicrous.
rudestuff - No reall back story other than what I've described above. I'm attending a wedding as a guest and want to land in their grounds. Incidentally, they're using the grounds to park the other guests cars and I simply want to land there. It is literally as big as Liverpool Airport and there's no shortage of space. I have since learned though that the venue has had it's own issues with the council on unrelated issues and this is why they are hesitant. The issues they have had are within the public domain and in fact resulted in the Council being condemned by a Judge.
Golfbananajam - no chance, if we had to do that every time, there would be no point in owning a helicopter as we'd never get airborne.
Meleagertoo - I agree, but I still need (and want) the landowners permission and they mistakenly believe I need council approval which I don't. I want to land there so I'm putting in the effort to convince the venue that they don't need it.
heli1 - thanks, I am sticking at it and thanks for the warning regarding nuts because I'm allergic to them !!!
Thanks for all your replies - I will try and answer each persons questions :-
misterbonkers - the landing spot is 250m away from a building and I could land an airliner in there. It's also in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing around the venue either except green fields. I'm happy with the site and certainly landed in similiar and smaller hundred's of times. I'd rather not mention the venue except to say it's an established wedding and function venue on the Wirrall. I've contacted the Council and pretty much had an argument with them because they refuse to commit eithert way without me paying £150 and submitting a pre planning application - ludicrous.
rudestuff - No reall back story other than what I've described above. I'm attending a wedding as a guest and want to land in their grounds. Incidentally, they're using the grounds to park the other guests cars and I simply want to land there. It is literally as big as Liverpool Airport and there's no shortage of space. I have since learned though that the venue has had it's own issues with the council on unrelated issues and this is why they are hesitant. The issues they have had are within the public domain and in fact resulted in the Council being condemned by a Judge.
Golfbananajam - no chance, if we had to do that every time, there would be no point in owning a helicopter as we'd never get airborne.
Meleagertoo - I agree, but I still need (and want) the landowners permission and they mistakenly believe I need council approval which I don't. I want to land there so I'm putting in the effort to convince the venue that they don't need it.
heli1 - thanks, I am sticking at it and thanks for the warning regarding nuts because I'm allergic to them !!!
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Beware the HSE too, even if you are allowed to land legally, it being a "public" space I would have expected you to need some sort of written safety assessment agreed with the venue which covers things like small children running out while your rotors are running, action in the event of..... etc. It may also be prudent to let the local police know, assuming it's not a regular occurrence at the venue, or you may end up with someone dialing 999 resulting in a mass response for a crashed heli
Just my 10 peneth having never flown rotary
Just my 10 peneth having never flown rotary
UK AIP GEN 1-6-7 gives guidance on the use of a temporary landing site. For ease of finding the relevant pages, this link is useful: https://helipaddy.com/blog/2019/01/1...air-assemblies
Permit an interuption from a surveyor.
The curtilage of a property is not the land around it in the same ownership. There are many examples of legal/planning matters/tax where the property is allowed a certain area to with as it pleases and beyond that use is limited.
An example might be a house in green belt where the council drew an imaginary boundary in the garden between an area near the house where they could build a barbeque, erect a trampoline or a children's play area and an area where they could not. The two areas looked identical and the overall area was perfectly reasonable for a house of it's size.
For tax purposes, selling your principal private residence is free from CGT only if the curtilage is less than about one acre. Anything more is taxed.
So a question of fact and degree as to curtilage....
You need a planning consultant or specialist lawyer Joel.
The curtilage of a property is not the land around it in the same ownership. There are many examples of legal/planning matters/tax where the property is allowed a certain area to with as it pleases and beyond that use is limited.
An example might be a house in green belt where the council drew an imaginary boundary in the garden between an area near the house where they could build a barbeque, erect a trampoline or a children's play area and an area where they could not. The two areas looked identical and the overall area was perfectly reasonable for a house of it's size.
For tax purposes, selling your principal private residence is free from CGT only if the curtilage is less than about one acre. Anything more is taxed.
So a question of fact and degree as to curtilage....
You need a planning consultant or specialist lawyer Joel.
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UK AIP GEN 1-6-7 gives guidance on the use of a temporary landing site. For ease of finding the relevant pages, this link is useful: https://helipaddy.com/blog/2019/01/1...air-assemblies
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chopjock
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You do know that when landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice that you don't actually have to land or take off right?
Unless landing or taking off "in accordance with normal aviation practice" comes to mind...
You do know that when landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice that you don't actually have to land or take off right?
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Permit an interuption from a surveyor.
The curtilage of a property is not the land around it in the same ownership. There are many examples of legal/planning matters/tax where the property is allowed a certain area to with as it pleases and beyond that use is limited.
An example might be a house in green belt where the council drew an imaginary boundary in the garden between an area near the house where they could build a barbeque, erect a trampoline or a children's play area and an area where they could not. The two areas looked identical and the overall area was perfectly reasonable for a house of it's size.
For tax purposes, selling your principal private residence is free from CGT only if the curtilage is less than about one acre. Anything more is taxed.
So a question of fact and degree as to curtilage....
You need a planning consultant or specialist lawyer Joel.
The curtilage of a property is not the land around it in the same ownership. There are many examples of legal/planning matters/tax where the property is allowed a certain area to with as it pleases and beyond that use is limited.
An example might be a house in green belt where the council drew an imaginary boundary in the garden between an area near the house where they could build a barbeque, erect a trampoline or a children's play area and an area where they could not. The two areas looked identical and the overall area was perfectly reasonable for a house of it's size.
For tax purposes, selling your principal private residence is free from CGT only if the curtilage is less than about one acre. Anything more is taxed.
So a question of fact and degree as to curtilage....
You need a planning consultant or specialist lawyer Joel.
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IMHO, I don't think you should get distracted into a debate about the definition of 'curtilage'. As Espada III suggests, that's a whole murky area of planning law that almost no-one has enough time to get involved in. And I suspect it's completely irrelevant in any case, as is any suggestion that the hotel is not a 'private site'.
On the other hand I think it could be all about the back story: "... the venue has had its own issues with the council on unrelated issues and this is why they are hesitant. The issues they have had are within the public domain and in fact resulted in the Council being condemned by a Judge."
From what I can tell, the back story goes like this: Wedding Venue A (where you want to land) has just won a major legal dispute at appeal with the local council over an erroneous planning permission awarded to Wedding Venue B (about a mile or so away) over 5 years ago. This decision will dramatically effect the business of WVB (presumably to the benefit of WVA). Meanwhile Wedding Venue C (between the two, really!) applied for and obtained temporary permission for a helipad in 2010, extended ultimately until 2016 but not, as far as I can tell, renewed subsequently. This allowed for '1 or 2 movements per week' (hence the clear need for PP). At the time of the original application, there was vociferous local opposition on the basis that: "...if one club was allowed a helicopter pad, nearby venues like (WVA) and (WVB) would soon follow suit."
So, in short, I think this is nothing at all to do with legislation and all to do with local politics in an area where the locals are already highly sensitive to helicopters and weddings, three adjacent wedding venues are in very fierce competition, each liable to resort to legal action at the slightest excuse, and the local council has just been made to look incompetent. All in all, although there's no legal reason why you shouldn't, I think landing a helicopter in the middle of that sh**storm is unlikely to go well....
On the other hand I think it could be all about the back story: "... the venue has had its own issues with the council on unrelated issues and this is why they are hesitant. The issues they have had are within the public domain and in fact resulted in the Council being condemned by a Judge."
From what I can tell, the back story goes like this: Wedding Venue A (where you want to land) has just won a major legal dispute at appeal with the local council over an erroneous planning permission awarded to Wedding Venue B (about a mile or so away) over 5 years ago. This decision will dramatically effect the business of WVB (presumably to the benefit of WVA). Meanwhile Wedding Venue C (between the two, really!) applied for and obtained temporary permission for a helipad in 2010, extended ultimately until 2016 but not, as far as I can tell, renewed subsequently. This allowed for '1 or 2 movements per week' (hence the clear need for PP). At the time of the original application, there was vociferous local opposition on the basis that: "...if one club was allowed a helicopter pad, nearby venues like (WVA) and (WVB) would soon follow suit."
So, in short, I think this is nothing at all to do with legislation and all to do with local politics in an area where the locals are already highly sensitive to helicopters and weddings, three adjacent wedding venues are in very fierce competition, each liable to resort to legal action at the slightest excuse, and the local council has just been made to look incompetent. All in all, although there's no legal reason why you shouldn't, I think landing a helicopter in the middle of that sh**storm is unlikely to go well....
Last edited by Gustosomerset; 3rd Jul 2019 at 08:14. Reason: (Edited because - having an interest in helicopters and planning law - I looked up the back story)
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IMHO, I don't think you should get distracted into a debate about the definition of 'curtilage'. As Espada III suggests, that's a whole murky area of planning law that almost no-one has enough time to get involved in. And I suspect it's completely irrelevant in any case, as is any suggestion that the hotel is not a 'private site'.
On the other hand I think it could be all about the back story: "... the venue has had its own issues with the council on unrelated issues and this is why they are hesitant. The issues they have had are within the public domain and in fact resulted in the Council being condemned by a Judge."
From what I can tell, the back story goes like this: Wedding Venue A (where you want to land) has just won a major legal dispute at appeal with the local council over an erroneous planning permission awarded to Wedding Venue B (about a mile or so away) over 5 years ago. This decision will dramatically effect the business of WVB (presumably to the benefit of WVA). Meanwhile Wedding Venue C (between the two, really!) applied for and obtained temporary permission for a helipad in 2010, extended ultimately until 2016 but not, as far as I can tell, renewed subsequently. This allowed for '1 or 2 movements per week' (hence the clear need for PP). At the time of the original application, there was vociferous local opposition on the basis that: "...if one club was allowed a helicopter pad, nearby venues like (WVA) and (WVB) would soon follow suit."
So, in short, I think this is nothing at all to do with legislation and all to do with local politics in an area where the locals are already highly sensitive to helicopters and weddings, three adjacent wedding venues are in very fierce competition, each liable to resort to legal action at the slightest excuse, and the local council has just been made to look incompetent. All in all, although there's no legal reason why you shouldn't, I think landing a helicopter in the middle of that sh**storm is unlikely to go well....
On the other hand I think it could be all about the back story: "... the venue has had its own issues with the council on unrelated issues and this is why they are hesitant. The issues they have had are within the public domain and in fact resulted in the Council being condemned by a Judge."
From what I can tell, the back story goes like this: Wedding Venue A (where you want to land) has just won a major legal dispute at appeal with the local council over an erroneous planning permission awarded to Wedding Venue B (about a mile or so away) over 5 years ago. This decision will dramatically effect the business of WVB (presumably to the benefit of WVA). Meanwhile Wedding Venue C (between the two, really!) applied for and obtained temporary permission for a helipad in 2010, extended ultimately until 2016 but not, as far as I can tell, renewed subsequently. This allowed for '1 or 2 movements per week' (hence the clear need for PP). At the time of the original application, there was vociferous local opposition on the basis that: "...if one club was allowed a helicopter pad, nearby venues like (WVA) and (WVB) would soon follow suit."
So, in short, I think this is nothing at all to do with legislation and all to do with local politics in an area where the locals are already highly sensitive to helicopters and weddings, three adjacent wedding venues are in very fierce competition, each liable to resort to legal action at the slightest excuse, and the local council has just been made to look incompetent. All in all, although there's no legal reason why you shouldn't, I think landing a helicopter in the middle of that sh**storm is unlikely to go well....
