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AW 139 Hard Landing in Spain.

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AW 139 Hard Landing in Spain.

Old 15th Jun 2019, 19:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hueyracer View Post
Guys,

The second engine will continue to operate for a few more minutes....
few more seconds would sound better..

C80
skadi is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 04:57
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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That depends on the levels of the tanks.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 22:42
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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But if you run out of fuel you run out of fuel and all goes quiet whether you be over congested hostile, open green (as in this instance) or even the icy waters of the Antarctic. There are many issues being described by the quoted crewmember, crm even when single pilot could have saved the day perhaps with the right training. But as per Almeria 139 fatal ditching a few years ago SASEMAR and Spanish operators in general arenít big on CRM or even standards for that matter.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 20:23
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I do not know if this is the same Aircraft but the last entry for G-CIJX on Flightradar looks a bit suspicious. 11:31 UTC at an altitude of 6450ft with 150kts ground speed an then it all stops.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-cijx#20dd2132

And a day later G-CIJW was ferried to the resuce, straight from Verigate to Alicante via St.Tropez.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-cijw#20e1b8ca
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 21:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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6450' with 150 kts GS final data point doesn't look like an OEI configuration to me.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 21:11
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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SASEMAR and Spanish operators in general aren’t big on CRM or even standards for that matter.
Slightly unfair on SASEMAR, they are the customer, not operator. I believe the operator is still Babcock Espana, and agree with the comment on standards in that case. The former INAER operations that were purchased by Babcock in 2014 as part of the Avincis deal have suffered several incidents, and several anti-trust investigations in Italy and Spain. One may of expected an improvement when Babcock took over, but........

Still, they are cheap, which seems to be the key metric for customers these days.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 21:22
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Good Spot; Best Direction?

Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
He picked a good spot to aim for. Too bad the bit at the bottom didn't go quite to plan. Off to the sim for some practice.
Wouldn't up slope be better, if possible, to judge the touchdown, unless the tailwind would be too great? Does down slope mean that too much collective, too early could cause a big drop from an over run? I'm fixed wing hanglider, so speculating, but I always go for an up slope to judge it spot on. Here's an extreme upslope at 0:54:
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 21:38
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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In to wind and not hitting anything is what you should be planning on. Slope doesn't matter.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Regardless of what caused both engines to go I would be happy with that outcome if it were me. An auto to walk away from and the aircraft not a complete waste is a tick in the box for me.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 11:10
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
In to wind and not hitting anything is what you should be planning on. Slope doesn't matter.
I'm with you on that. If you can find an area of open ground with minimum hard objects in this situation, you are lucky.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 11:31
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Non-PC Plod View Post
I'm with you on that. If you can find an area of open ground with minimum hard objects in this situation, you are lucky.
plus thereís a world of difference in judging appropriate flare heights etc doing 80 kts and a partially obstructed view ahead, compared to a hanglider at what? 15 kts and unobstructed view.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 13:33
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vortexringshark View Post
..I would be happy with that outcome if it were me. An auto to walk away from and the aircraft not a complete waste is a tick in the box for me.
Maybe. Maybe not. If you don't screw up the initial transition into auto-rotation, and get a stable descent happening, and you have a big flat open area to aim for, you should be able to put it on the ground without a scratch. Call the fuel truck to top you up, maybe send another pilot and continue on.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 14:10
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man View Post

plus thereís a world of difference in judging appropriate flare heights etc doing 80 kts and a partially obstructed view ahead, compared to a hanglider at what? 15 kts and unobstructed view.
Pulling on enough speed on a kingpostless hanglider, to flare up a moderate slope is about 30 kts. Stalling speed is 15 kts.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 17:51
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
Maybe. Maybe not. If you don't screw up the initial transition into auto-rotation, and get a stable descent happening, and you have a big flat open area to aim for, you should be able to put it on the ground without a scratch. Call the fuel truck to top you up, maybe send another pilot and continue on.
If you get a big open area which has no rocks, ruts, rabbit holes, boggy ground or wires on it, you might get away without a scratch. If thats what you get, the gods are on your side.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 18:33
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Watching the video....and seeing all of the nice pretty flat clear areas the hang glider pilot forsake for where he did wind up....I would suggest he could have done a much easier job of getting his aircraft down than he did. Just saying!
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 20:32
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Non-PC Plod View Post
If you get a big open area which has no rocks, ruts, rabbit holes, boggy ground or wires on it, you might get away without a scratch. If thats what you get, the gods are on your side.
Yeap. That nice flat open area you spotted when you enter auto tends to look a bit different about the stage you start to flare.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 00:23
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Watching the video....and seeing all of the nice pretty flat clear areas the hang glider pilot forsake for where he did wind up....I would suggest he could have done a much easier job of getting his aircraft down than he did. Just saying!
Ah, but landing on the nice flat fields leaves you at the bottom of the hill, so you have to pack the glider away and load it onto a car to drive it back to the take off, where it has to be rigged again; a turnaround of 90 minutes. If you land on the slope, you can carry the glider fully rigged (a mere 105 lbs, with the harness) 200' back up to the top of the hill in just 15 minutes and be ready to take off into the next thermal. It also gives you a good workout.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 01:47
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vortexringshark View Post
Regardless of what caused both engines to go I would be happy with that outcome if it were me. An auto to walk away from and the aircraft not a complete waste is a tick in the box for me.

+2 on that comment. Slope is pretty hard to pick from 6000ft. Autos to the ground in twins are not something most civilian pilots get practice at. The Sim is great but it's not the real world. I tip my hat to the Pilot for the auto at least. Walked away with aircraft partially damaged. Babcock should be able to afford the insurance bill with all the savings they are making with wages.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 03:37
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SLFMS View Post
...I tip my hat to the Pilot for the auto at least....
Yep. But IF he ran out of fuel, nope.

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Old 20th Jun 2019, 10:10
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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A good landing is any landing you can walk away from....

A great landing is any landing you walk away from AND can use the aircraft again!
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