NYC helicopter crash 10th June 2019
Here's a recent example of it - scud-running along in VMC, then abruptly climbing into IMC (probably due to disorientation in the poor weather). What is odd is that even with AP it doesn't seem like the NYC pilot tried to use it.
,...at least that's kinda what happened to me once.
During the descent seen in the video....the aircraft appeared to be traveling quite fast....and it seemed it was approaching some low cloud or fog.
Could it be something as simple as trying to slow down and the pitch up took him back into cloud.
From the collateral information it does appear he was "lost" despite being very close to his takeoff point and in an area he knew well.
Also....there are two ways to use the "Direct To" feature on a GPS....one is for your Destination....and the other is to your Departure Point.
In poor weather....using your Take Off Point as the waypoint and flying the reciprocal track away from the Take Off Point towards your destination allows you a very quick way of getting turned around if you encounter deteriorating weather.
Linden, New Jersey was not that far away.
Had the Pilot followed the shoreline at a low altitude and slow ground speed and used all of his navaids....perhaps this tragedy might have been avoided.
Could it be something as simple as trying to slow down and the pitch up took him back into cloud.
From the collateral information it does appear he was "lost" despite being very close to his takeoff point and in an area he knew well.
Also....there are two ways to use the "Direct To" feature on a GPS....one is for your Destination....and the other is to your Departure Point.
In poor weather....using your Take Off Point as the waypoint and flying the reciprocal track away from the Take Off Point towards your destination allows you a very quick way of getting turned around if you encounter deteriorating weather.
Linden, New Jersey was not that far away.
Had the Pilot followed the shoreline at a low altitude and slow ground speed and used all of his navaids....perhaps this tragedy might have been avoided.
I don't believe its hard to explain at all. Incapacitating Spatial Disorientation, where a pilot knows that he is disoriented but fails or is incapable of taking the proper corrective action. Maybe a somatogravic illusion (among others)? Does anyone doubt this pilot’s disorientation? It’s never a requirement to be completely IMC for SD, and recovery is not necessarily instantaneous. USAF paper which gives examples of ISD located here.
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I don't believe its hard to explain at all. Incapacitating Spatial Disorientation, where a pilot knows that he is disoriented but fails or is incapable of taking the proper corrective action. Maybe a somatogravic illusion (among others)? Does anyone doubt this pilot’s disorientation? It’s never a requirement to be completely IMC for SD, and recovery is not necessarily instantaneous. USAF paper which gives examples of ISD located here.
Except that, the abrupt pull up when the helicopter is seen emerging from the bottom of the cloud the first time around strongly suggests he had a good visual reference to complete that manoeuvre.
You're making the assumption that the pilot was making rational decisions when he was completely lost and very likely highly stressed.
Avoid imitations
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It's not impossible that the extreme attitudes reached had toppled one or both of the aircraft main gyros, so even if he tried to use the AI he would have been on a hiding to nothing.
The second video is published on the Instagram account thingswendysees and is not widely distributed.
It shows the aircraft in level slow clockwise tight turn approx 150ft AGL, less than 200 ft from the river bank and very near the Edison power facility, then a climb North, back past camera and toward the accident site.
Note that original videos were shot in portrait mode, but are cropped for Instagram.
The full height videos show a ferry (or ferries) sailing South down river toward camera, which may corroborate the photographers recollection that the aircraft returned very shortly after the recording of the first video ceased.
https://instagram.com/thingswendysee...=1p6xp0n8bd5zv
Mjb
It shows the aircraft in level slow clockwise tight turn approx 150ft AGL, less than 200 ft from the river bank and very near the Edison power facility, then a climb North, back past camera and toward the accident site.
Note that original videos were shot in portrait mode, but are cropped for Instagram.
The full height videos show a ferry (or ferries) sailing South down river toward camera, which may corroborate the photographers recollection that the aircraft returned very shortly after the recording of the first video ceased.
https://instagram.com/thingswendysee...=1p6xp0n8bd5zv
Mjb
Something doesn't add up here. I mean, the wx looks quite flyable. Viz at last 2000; ceiling 300, 400 ft, maybe down to 200 at some patches You may not reach your destination, but you can try. You can give it a go, slow but steady, and return to base if it gets hairy. It's not like as if the wx closed in behind him. And the pilot seems very much in control of his machine, stable hover etc as shown in the second video (the earlier one in the time line).
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I wrote pretty much this same opinion in earlier posts. This wasn't a 200-hour pilot that suddenly found himself at 6N5 facing some crappy wx. And the reported wx was 500 and 1.25 miles vis.....the video supports this.
Intermittent IMC is far more dangerous and disorientating than full IMC as you have conflicting information between the instruments and the fleeting glimpses of the ground or cloud base - the human brain is hardwired to prefer visual information cues even if they are not telling the whole truth with regards to the horizon or the vertical.
Get on instruments - stay on instruments.
Get on instruments - stay on instruments.
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No need for him to ever look at the flight instruments...he was in VMC, just look at the East River and shoreline and fly back to the heliport. I just don't understand why so many here are hard-over for "lost and disoriented."
Originally Posted by [email protected]
...Get on instruments - stay on instruments.
The evidence in favour that the hover video is second in the timeline is
1/The tracking data posted earlier shows a flight track that appears to match the hover video and ceases over the city near the crash site.
2/The position of a ferry sailing toward indicates the hover video was taken after the dive video.(if it is the same ferry in both shots)
But this is not conclusive evidence, as are messages from the videographer.
Note: the recently built ferry terminal (late 2018) pictured in the hover video is not present in some older google earth images.
mjb
Last edited by mickjoebill; 6th Jul 2019 at 06:22.
Because, as the report stated, he "did not know whre he was".
Sometimes when flying in very bad viz a pilot might not exactly know where they are on the map (as he/she is missing the big picture). Shouldn’t really be an issue these days with moving map apps. But many people become complacent and don’t whip out their iPad for just a local flight. Then they might get lost.
This does not imply spatial disorientation. Let’s not confuse for a second those two!
Fact remains, it was 2000 m viz, ceiling 500. Perfect day for flying along the shoreline (or between the buildings, there is enough space, might not be entirely legal though in NYC).
Something doesn’t add up.
This does not imply spatial disorientation. Let’s not confuse for a second those two!
Fact remains, it was 2000 m viz, ceiling 500. Perfect day for flying along the shoreline (or between the buildings, there is enough space, might not be entirely legal though in NYC).
Something doesn’t add up.
Unless you don't hold an IR, as in this case. Get visual, stay visual.