Kailua fatal crash 29/04/2019
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And, yes, they were and are operating Robinson helicopters, but that is merely incidental to this issue because they are so popular (i.e. profitable). And they are much quieter than a turbine helicopter, too, not that that was any help in the situation.
My point is, the crash worthiness of the design isn't favorable to passenger welfare. I mean, basically you're sitting on a 2 inch foam padded tin bucket in a Robinson, mostly reliant on fixed steel cross tubes to absorb crash forces (other helicopter types have similar attributes, for sure). And very little space separating you from cabin structures. When you are fare paying passenger in an aircraft, I think a higher standard should apply than that. Anyway, the choice to not fly in such a contraption is often an option.
Anyway. The post crash photo of the smouldering wreckage laying in the street shows both TR blades attached to the TR hub, and not bent at all. Which gives one a hunch they weren't turning under power or all that fast at the instant of impact. Consistent also with eye witness reports of loss of directional control whilst in flight.
Oh, hell yeah! We lost access to a prime heli destination in my neck of the woods, a very nice restaurant in an un-traditional location, because of the idiotic actions of a local tour company. The same idiots got helicopter operations restricted at a nearby airport as well.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Possibly a function of using low-time, hours-building pilots who don't know any better and who will work for bottom dollar - not a great combination for safe commercial air transport work.............
If you can turn $200 a head every 15 to 20 minutes, who cares about those poor schmucks on the ground
Hawaii Tour Firms
Well here is one tour firm the FAA seem to approve of in Hawaii
https://www.verticalmag.com/press-re...-tour-company/
They also won another award.
https://www.verticalmag.com/press-re...of-excellence/
https://www.verticalmag.com/press-re...-tour-company/
They also won another award.
https://www.verticalmag.com/press-re...of-excellence/
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Possibly a function of using low-time, hours-building pilots who don't know any better and who will work for bottom dollar - not a great combination for safe commercial air transport work.............
When your boss drives a Ferrari while you're living in your Civic, something just ain't right!
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More like bottom feeder operators (many of whom have questionable maintenance practices) who treat their pilots like slaves knowing these low time hour builders have to "pay their dues" in such shotty operations if they ever want to fatten their books up enough to one day "earn" that liveable wage!
When your boss drives a Ferrari while you're living in your Civic, something just ain't right!
When your boss drives a Ferrari while you're living in your Civic, something just ain't right!
You're on to something with that line of thinking, in this case she drives a Jag and the kiddie pilots rely mainly on tips to eat and find shelter.
Last edited by Tuk; 7th May 2019 at 22:43. Reason: typo
Studying the few pictures taken shortly after the impact when the 44 was on fire.
On this evidence it looks like the fuel cell did not spill its guts, or if it did there was a very low volume of fuel to spill.
It is unlikely two blokes in shorts and garden hoses could extinguish a raging avgas fuel fire.
Poor crash-worthiness of frame, seats and proximity of passenger heads to unpadded interior is not uncommon in light aircraft.
At least we are seeing fewer catastrophic post impact fires on R44s..
mjb
On this evidence it looks like the fuel cell did not spill its guts, or if it did there was a very low volume of fuel to spill.
It is unlikely two blokes in shorts and garden hoses could extinguish a raging avgas fuel fire.
Poor crash-worthiness of frame, seats and proximity of passenger heads to unpadded interior is not uncommon in light aircraft.
At least we are seeing fewer catastrophic post impact fires on R44s..
mjb
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Oh, hell yeah! We lost access to a prime heli destination in my neck of the woods, a very nice restaurant in an un-traditional location, because of the idiotic actions of a local tour company. The same idiots got helicopter operations restricted at a nearby airport as well. Both the restaurant and airport became the target of complaints because the tour company was doing stupid stuff over nearby residential areas and this made the locals hypersensitive to ANY helicopter operations. Rather than face a social media ****-storm, the both locations rolled over and showed their bellies.
And, yes, they were and are operating Robinson helicopters, but that is merely incidental to this issue because they are so popular (i.e. profitable). And they are much quieter than a turbine helicopter, too, not that that was any help in the situation.
And, yes, they were and are operating Robinson helicopters, but that is merely incidental to this issue because they are so popular (i.e. profitable). And they are much quieter than a turbine helicopter, too, not that that was any help in the situation.
What continually angers me is that when I do recurrent training with a pilot, few of them think about the noise/annoyance they make. I can't tell you how many pilots I encounter that, when given a task of a confined area approach, only think about wind and terrain, but nothing about the noise they make, where they could come in a different way with a little cross wind and nobody would even know they had landed. Instead they fly directly over a neighborhood, and when I query them about it always get told the same thing: "nobody ever talked to me about that". So much for HAI's "Fly Friendly".
As for the R44 as a tour machine: It's probably the best suited piston machine for that job. You don't have to worry about cycles on the engine, so lots of short flights with idle time between flights is fine. Everybody has a window seat, so the view is good. In almost every respect it's easier to fly and more forgiving than an R22 (which is what a lot of the entry level tour pilots will be coming from). It's pretty fast, so if you're trying to make a loop around the island/city/whatever you can cover ground pretty fast.
I did notice in one of the quoted news articles that the pilot was a flight instructor, although it didn't say whether/how much instruction he had given. In the US, it's ridiculously easy to get a commercial helicopter certificate. The two main avenues to your first "real" pilot job is either flight instruction or tours. To think that someone with 150 hours can be out there flying with 3 blissfully ignorant (of the dangers) passengers just gives me shivers. And yet, when I had 150 hours I probably thought I was a pretty good stick. You look back on stuff like that and shake your head at how much you didn't know. And not only about flying! As a new pilot you're totally unprepared on how to deal with management. Few new pilots are prepared to push back on an owner who's taking risks and cutting corners. They don't have the experience to know where to draw the line. And lets face it, the passengers would probably be horrified to learn what a new pilot is willing to put up with to get that hours building job.
Kailua Neighborhood Board seek a ban on helicopter flights over the beach community.
The Kailua Neighborhood Board has passed a resolution asking for a federal ban of all tour helicopters over the beach community, and has sent a formal letter to the Federal Aviation Administration outlining details of that request.
On Sunday, board chair Bill Hicks sent a letter to Steve Dickson, administrator of the FAA, as well as Nicole Vandelaar, chairperson of the Hawaii Helicopter
Association.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/...n-over-kailua/
The Kailua Neighborhood Board has passed a resolution asking for a federal ban of all tour helicopters over the beach community, and has sent a formal letter to the Federal Aviation Administration outlining details of that request.
On Sunday, board chair Bill Hicks sent a letter to Steve Dickson, administrator of the FAA, as well as Nicole Vandelaar, chairperson of the Hawaii Helicopter
Association.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/...n-over-kailua/
I did notice in one of the quoted news articles that the pilot was a flight instructor, although it didn't say whether/how much instruction he had given. In the US, it's ridiculously easy to get a commercial helicopter certificate. The two main avenues to your first "real" pilot job is either flight instruction or tours. To think that someone with 150 hours can be out there flying with 3 blissfully ignorant (of the dangers) passengers just gives me shivers. And yet, when I had 150 hours I probably thought I was a pretty good stick. You look back on stuff like that and shake your head at how much you didn't know. And not only about flying! As a new pilot you're totally unprepared on how to deal with management. Few new pilots are prepared to push back on an owner who's taking risks and cutting corners. They don't have the experience to know where to draw the line. And lets face it, the passengers would probably be horrified to learn what a new pilot is willing to put up with to get that hours building job.
By the way, not all of us low timers don't know where to draw the line, or are willing to put up with these asshole operators and do "anything" to build hours!,...but yeah, we aren't taught much about noise.
,...and yes, there are tour companies out there that if someone I knew said they were going to take a ride with, I'd screem at them to avoid that place like the plague!
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I had excellent instruction about noise footprints and being a friendly helicopter pilot. Based on my insurance rates, it appears my school is considered exceptional. I feel very lucky to have learned where I did. Seriously, not being snarky! Based also on what I've read here and on various other helicopter internet resources, damn lucky! Which is, sadly, a backward indictment of a lot of other schools. Indeed, another local school just went out of business. Pissed of some local establishments that USED to be helicopter friendly, and pissed away all their money doing stupid stuff. At least nobody got killed in the process 
All I can say is don't pick a school that does the minimum, and don't pick a school that only has you flying paved runway to paved runway with an occasional foray into 80 acre farm fields that are "confined". But not everyone has the luxury to make those choices, of course.
All I can say is don't pick a school that does the minimum, and don't pick a school that only has you flying paved runway to paved runway with an occasional foray into 80 acre farm fields that are "confined". But not everyone has the luxury to make those choices, of course.
