FAI into Clutha crash opens
double bogey,
I have really no clue whatsoever,
with a navy background, some freelancing and flying police ops since the year 2000 ...
with Bo105, BK117 (B2/C1 Variants), EC155, H145.
Hovering, cruising, transporting, loitering...
experiencing different fuel states between hover and cruise, switching pumps.
its standard, that the next mission(s) are given over radio- while on one mission.
may be its due training with the RN, that I do a fuel check before takeoff,
check the burn rate around every 30 min
and have a close eye on in which tank my fuel is.
Canceling warnings without reacting accordingly is just what I can’t understand from an aviator point of view
if that’s „Bull....“ for you, I don’t want to fly with you...
Helicomparator
you haven’t really read my posts, have you?
I wrote, that we don’t have - and I guess won‘t get the information, what was happening inside the bird in regards of communication/ human factors.
I really know, that if the holes start to line up, the risk of desaster increases exponentially.
Thats why you have to back off and re evaluate the situation sensing any hole, may it pressure on the crew, may it be weather, may it be any failure of hardware.
And at the end, decide for the safety of the crew.
With repeating warnings there is no really any reason to continue police work without solving that problem (hole in the cheese) first.
I won’t say, I couldn’t oversee something- which I wrote before, everybody can reach his limits (easily shown in a Sim, if someone doesn’t believe)
But been there I learned a lesson to back off early.
Dave didn’t had the luck.
you haven’t really read my posts, have you?
I wrote, that we don’t have - and I guess won‘t get the information, what was happening inside the bird in regards of communication/ human factors.
I really know, that if the holes start to line up, the risk of desaster increases exponentially.
Thats why you have to back off and re evaluate the situation sensing any hole, may it pressure on the crew, may it be weather, may it be any failure of hardware.
And at the end, decide for the safety of the crew.
With repeating warnings there is no really any reason to continue police work without solving that problem (hole in the cheese) first.
I won’t say, I couldn’t oversee something- which I wrote before, everybody can reach his limits (easily shown in a Sim, if someone doesn’t believe)
But been there I learned a lesson to back off early.
Dave didn’t had the luck.
DB, you need to get out more 
it is part of the lexicon in some areas of the business, as much as you may hate it, one dictionary includes the definition,
it is part of the lexicon in some areas of the business, as much as you may hate it, one dictionary includes the definition,
a man-made object (such as an aircraft, rocket, or satellite) that resembles a bird especially by flying or being aloft
Then there is giving someone the bird. You hate these type of birds as well?
Just a numbered other
i think Captain Trail’s probable belief that both transfer pumps were on when in fact both were off persuaded him to ignore subsequent warnings.
i did read every word of the FAI report. I can’t help agreeing with its findings.
But I think that the fuel system of the 135 is an abomination waiting to trap the unwary in a totally false illusion that each engine has its own fuel supply to meet regulation.
ive never flown the type, but it seems to me that there is never a time when both transfer pumps would intentionally be off together.
so why not a single three position switch. Centre - Both on. Forward - Forward on Rear off. Rear - Rear on Forward off.
and if you ever need both off a separate guarded switch to turn both off.
Last edited by Arkroyal; 9th Nov 2019 at 09:15.
“I've never flown the type, but it seems to me that there is never a time when both transfer pumps would intentionally be off together”
Yep, when main is empty and fuel is only being drawn from the supply tanks. In simple terms, when there is no fuel to be transferred from main to the supply tanks, the transfer pumps are turned off.
Yep, when main is empty and fuel is only being drawn from the supply tanks. In simple terms, when there is no fuel to be transferred from main to the supply tanks, the transfer pumps are turned off.
Just a numbered other
Sloppy Link
Thanks for that. So only when the fuel state is quite low. Can’t remember the total contents of the supply tanks but roughly how much time would you have left once in that condition?
Thanks for that. So only when the fuel state is quite low. Can’t remember the total contents of the supply tanks but roughly how much time would you have left once in that condition?
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meleagertoo.......... That’s the proverb able million dollar question !!!!!!! , I have always pondered on it myself, ( I DONT THINK SO ) But will always stand corrected if it has been provided , But the Dark place north of the Border Might never see the 9999 clarity to your question .
“I've never flown the type, but it seems to me that there is never a time when both transfer pumps would intentionally be off together”
Yep, when main is empty and fuel is only being drawn from the supply tanks. In simple terms, when there is no fuel to be transferred from main to the supply tanks, the transfer pumps are turned off.
Yep, when main is empty and fuel is only being drawn from the supply tanks. In simple terms, when there is no fuel to be transferred from main to the supply tanks, the transfer pumps are turned off.
meleagertoo.......... That’s the proverb able million dollar question !!!!!!! , I have always pondered on it myself, ( I DONT THINK SO ) But will always stand corrected if it has been provided , But the Dark place north of the Border Might never see the 9999 clarity to your question .
Although Sheriff's determinations are available from the scotcourt website, transcripts are normally only available to the "interested parties" represented at the FAI.
DB - you are very quick to criticise FB for his terminology, rather childishly in fact, since English is not his first language you could just cut him some slack.
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Arnold Schwarzenegger says “get in da chopper! NOW!”.
He is the only one who can get away with it. I’ve never ever heard a British pilot or engineer call a helicopter a bird.
ive always referred to it as a helicopter or aeroplane/aircraft ��
He is the only one who can get away with it. I’ve never ever heard a British pilot or engineer call a helicopter a bird.
ive always referred to it as a helicopter or aeroplane/aircraft ��
except that the transfer pumps don’t need to be turned off, unless they are the crappy ones. Why not get rid of the crappy ones and then things would be much simpler and safer? No-one has bothered to do a risk assessment of the downside of the crappy ones vs ensuring that the pumps are the Test Fuchs type. What price making the system more error tolerant?
Last edited by Sloppy Link; 10th Nov 2019 at 18:23. Reason: Typo.
bye the way - there is actually a helicopter, which is official named bird
MH-6 Little Bird Light Utility Helicopter | Military-Today.com
;-)
To fuel pumps - not really the ideal situation, that with only little fuel left, either the front or back pump runs dry (hovering / cruise).
Better to have pumps with run dry capability - but still, pumps are cautions, low fuel is a warning, which needs to be addressed accordingly.
Different to the normal aviation world, where you have time and need to do a proper preflight planning including fuel planning (normally on a sheet which needs to be taken onto the flight), police and SAR flights and some military - get missions while being airborne.
So you have to do inflight flight planning - but this should and normally does include fuel planning (trip / reserve fuel)
And the planning needs continues fine-tuning with changing mission parameters.
That it is demanding - at night - with two further crew members possible pushing towards mission completion - no question at all.
Everybody operating in a similar environment should therefore remember this crash and adjust his decision making towards safety.
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FB, Crab and Handy Snaks, Thou have the right o call them "Choppers", "Cabs", "Birds", "Flingwings" etc.
Crab its been a long time since you have got your gander up at ,me. Now I am just getting to old to react.
However, its a "Helicopter" or and "Aircraft" and it will always et my teeth on edge when someone calls it an odd name and "Bird" is the one that gets to me the most.
FB, if you cant speak English proper like! Don't worry,
In truth I am slightly dismayed that this whole subject has been resurrected. I thought it had already been thrashed out completely.
Any way goona get back in me motor and mosey on down to the boozer before the Trouble and Strife finds out.
Crab its been a long time since you have got your gander up at ,me. Now I am just getting to old to react.
However, its a "Helicopter" or and "Aircraft" and it will always et my teeth on edge when someone calls it an odd name and "Bird" is the one that gets to me the most.
FB, if you cant speak English proper like! Don't worry,
In truth I am slightly dismayed that this whole subject has been resurrected. I thought it had already been thrashed out completely.
Any way goona get back in me motor and mosey on down to the boozer before the Trouble and Strife finds out.
