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5 dead, Kenya Bell 505 crash

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5 dead, Kenya Bell 505 crash

Old 6th Mar 2019, 22:52
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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He was formerly in the KDF, but that doesn’t mean he’s instrument rated even if at some time he did instrument flying. He was flying a civilian aircraft on a commercial contract. I doubt that he had a valid, or current IR. I’m also sure that Bell 505 was nit cleared for IFR flight.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 00:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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lots of accidents there, i looked up the linkl, and all the issues they have had

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Willia...f9g/index.html
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 01:48
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Phone Wind View Post
...the fact still remains that flight in non-IFR helicopters with non-instrument rated crews is illegal in Kenya and in hostile terrain like that at night, the chance of surviving a major failure is minimal
The major failure was the pilot decision to take-off under the flight rules and conditions described, not whether the helicopter had a technical malfunction of some sort after take-off.

If the flight rules did not permit night operations, and the pilot complied with that requirement, they would all still be alive. That is the simple truth of the matter.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 02:15
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Not many hills here
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:14
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Not making assumptions, however if the pilot elected to break a golden rule itís extremely disappointing! When will people ever learn? There was an accident in Australia a few years ago where a highly experienced pilot who was flying a helicopter for the ABC that crashed doing a similar activity.

Experience is no excuse for blatant stupidity, not that Iím assuming this was the case in this accident. Iíve seen to many cases where pilots have broken the golden rules, VFR into IFR and idiots mucking around below LSALTs in IMC.

I can also admit that I used to be one of those stupid idiots and was lucky enough to survive on multiple occasions and have learnt. I have had a few good friends killed doing exactly the same, hence I donít tolerate this behaviour anymore. Iím one of the lucky ones as I have survived to tell the story, some havenít.

No excuses for breaking the golden rules under normal conditions in 2019, the pioneering days and elementary GPS days have long gone. Personal standards will only keep pilots safe, not rules and SOPs.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 09:45
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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What's left of it.

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Old 7th Mar 2019, 11:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Personal standards will only keep pilots safe, not rules and SOPs.

One must know one's own limitations....and learn to say "NO!",

The toughest opponent to that concept is one's own self.

The Rule might say you are legal and may do something....the decision to do it always remains with the Pilot behind the controls.

The Rules say you may....but can you?

Last edited by SASless; 7th Mar 2019 at 13:37.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 13:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed, SAS.

My predecessor as Chief Pilot at SA, Frank Tefft, offered this advice upon his retirement:

“The most important attribute of a Chief Pilot is knowing what is safe to fly and what is not.” That applies, I think, to helicopter flight operations beyond those of the test/OEM community.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 14:43
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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News Update

So the second aircraft is identified as an R44, probably flown by a junior pilot in the company. And we all know those things will crash just by looking cross-eyed at them. And yet it didnít and instead the new flagship 505 flown by the 5500 hr Chief Pilot crashed. Which says what, conditions were ok for night VFR after all? The R44 is safer than a 505? Article has a few dead ends, like the navigation aids having any influence in these days of GPS. Was the mission to depart from the shoreline lodge of Lobolo in the dark, fly 10 miles over the flat Lake Tarkana to Central Island for a recce or landing, and then back to Lobolo? On a clear night certainly doable, and it was for the 44 guy.

Maybe the R44 pilot had better night vision, unravaged by a lifetime of malaria. Ok, Iím grasping at straws here.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:50
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Just going along with your hypothetical scenario...

The "junior pilot" was probably flying with his heart in his throat and thereby stayed alive through superior focus, determination and use of basic skills. Meanwhile it was all old hat to "chief pilot" and complacency got him.

Yet another idea: the visibility was superior in the R44 cockpit because in the 505 cockpit those shining beacons of Garmin technology were reflecting off of the canopy like crazy and/or just plain old shit-canning whatever night vision the "chief pilot" had.

Last edited by aa777888; 8th Mar 2019 at 09:59.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 17:20
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aa777888 View Post
Yet another idea: the visibility was superior in the R44 cockpit because in the 505 cockpit those shining beacons of Garmin technology were reflecting off of the canopy like crazy and/or just plain old shit-canning whatever night vision the "chief pilot" had.
Alternatively he may have had his eyes glued to the synthetic vision believing that would save the day.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 17:50
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Does the 505 have a cockpit video recorder of the last 30min like on all the Airbus helicopters
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 19:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyting View Post
Does the 505 have a cockpit video recorder of the last 30min like on all the Airbus helicopters
No. Neither would I be sure that the airbus one would survive this crash.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 23:03
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Couple of comments I heard from down that way was that it was very windy that evening and that winds were about 50-60 but they didn't elaborate if that was knots or mph.
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 01:08
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I wouldnít put too much faith in anything I read in a Kenyan newspaper (or those from most countries, as reporting standards are very low these days). According to that report in the Daily Nation, Lobolo Camp is on Central Island, whilst in fact itís on the southwest shore of Lake Turkana. Also, Kenyan police report 5 fatalities, the Kenyan pilot and 4 Americans (whose names have all been reported in numerous journals).
What I have heard is that the 2 aircraft were shut down on Central Island as the passengers wanted to watch the sunset over the lake from there. However, around sunset the weather had deteriorated with strong winds (for which the area is well known) and they waited for a couple of hours to see if the weather would improve as they didnít want to spend the night on the island (maybe they were brightened by the thought of the large number of Nile crocodiles in the Island lakes?)
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 07:50
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The wrecked helicopter in the picture doesnít look like a 505...
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 09:25
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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It’s 5Y-KDL, which is definitely a B505.
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 09:42
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SuperF View Post
The wrecked helicopter in the picture doesnít look like a 505...


pic in post #4 or #26? For #4 you are right.

skadi
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