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Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

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Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club

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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 20:04
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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I've inspected dozens of rotor blade birdstrikes and one thing is common, you will always find bird remains on all the blades. Looking at the photo of the tail rotor on the ground, there are no bird remains at all.
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 20:30
  #502 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Viper 7
I've seen a sea gull descend into a turning sea king main rotor. The resulting feather explosion was impressive. A big goose and all those lights? Unlikely IMHO.
Fair point! A goose- "explosion" would probably indeed have been visible in the video although the tail rotor will likely not generate quite the same effect as the main rotor..
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 20:48
  #503 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Misformonkey
Zerospeed autos were done very frequently to confirm tail rotor rigging, did many as a FM.
This was about dong pedal turns through 180 degreees (or more) whilst established in a zero speed auto.
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 21:02
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Originally Posted by airsound
Sky Sports, when you say I assume you're looking at the picture that VintageEngineer offered (.pdf below).

The strange thing about that picture is that it's titled 'GGSKP TailRotor....". But this aircraft was GVSKP...

Probably not significant? But strange.

airsound
The blade at 12 o'clock in picture has what appears to be feathers/remains on the leading edge
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 21:10
  #505 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Michael Gee
The blade at 12 o'clock in picture has what appears to be feathers/remains on the leading edge
Looks like strands of carbon fibre to me?
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 21:19
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He added: 'Pilots are trained for this. It is survivable with the appropriate technique. It shouldn't be catastrophic'.

But aviation expert Jim Rowlands, a former RAF Puma crew member, told The Sun: 'There's no real coming back from that. The only way is down.

'The pilot has clearly done an incredible job, really'
Err, Mr Rowlands... we beg to differ on your expert conclusions. Tragic though the outcome was. Not only did the “ incredible job”, that being to steer the unfortunate passengers away from a school, orphanage, hospital and LGBT parade, but it also resulted in total loss of life and aircraft...really! True, the only way is down, but how you allow gravity to dictate your arrival does also involve a pilots input in most cases, including this one.


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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 22:25
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Thanks for reminding me of the zero speed 180 degree auto Crab. I was just about over it.
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 22:38
  #508 (permalink)  
 
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Zero Airspeed Auto with pedal turns.....normal part of every CoA Airtest on Bell 212's for sure.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 00:48
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Originally Posted by Cabby
..Does the AW169 type have a cockpit voice recorder?
..Don't Leonardo fit crash proof fuel tanks to this new type of a/c?
Yes, to both.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 00:51
  #510 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Myra Leese
This incident is surely the worst case scenario that any helicopter crew could experience....
Yep, it's towards the top. Trumped by MGB seizure / MR separation in-flight.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 01:12
  #511 (permalink)  
 
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Zero Airspeed Auto with pedal turns.....normal part of every CoA Airtest on Bell 212's for sure
Never heard of the procedure. Was this a routine procedure following tail rotor replacement, and apply to all helos? We had what I considered top flight maintenance, but all I ever recall doing was auto RPM checks, irrespective of type, military and civil.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 02:02
  #512 (permalink)  
 
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UK CAA Certificate of Airwothiness Test Flight Requirement.

The CAA had some interesting requirements for the CoA.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 08:01
  #513 (permalink)  
 
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Cyclic - it was 90 degrees to the right to check TR rigging in low speed (below 30 kts) auto, but you are right, it wasn't very comfortable

Myra - agreed, if he was doing the same confined area departure as in the 139 he would have an extra load on the TR by being cocked off to the left in order to keep the LS in sight - but why the removal of that yaw input at TDP would then cause a failure escapes me.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 08:45
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Originally Posted by ivorget
If I'm not very mistaken it can't possibly be a TR failure as many are suggesting because G-VSKP was clockwise-rotored (tail-rotor on right, unlike G-LCFC which appears in some pics) and the spiral down was in the direction of TR being the main force. So as others have mentioned issues such as TR hardover or main rotor vortex ring state are possible.
AW169 Main rotor spins in an anti clockwise rotation. Tail rotor in a clockwise. Aircraft spins in a clockwise rotation on the way down.

Vortex ring wouldn't cause that effect, it would just simply plummet.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 08:47
  #515 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ivorget
If I'm not very mistaken it can't possibly be a TR failure as many are suggesting because G-VSKP was clockwise-rotored (tail-rotor on right, unlike G-LCFC which appears in some pics) and the spiral down was in the direction of TR being the main force. So as others have mentioned issues such as TR hardover or main rotor vortex ring state are possible.
Both ships have counter-clockwise turning rotors, the tail rotor type on the G-LCFC is a pusher and on G-VSKP was a puller.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 09:20
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Ivorget

If I'm not very mistaken...
I think you might be...
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 09:55
  #517 (permalink)  
 
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All the AW 1*9 family have puller TR on the right hand side and all have MR rotation anti-clockwise when viewed from above.
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 10:41
  #518 (permalink)  
 
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Simple question for my betters:

Would a lift into a low hover transitioning into a more 'horizontal' take off be inherently safer than a departure like this one? (Given a suitable obstacle free 'runway'/take off path....)

And would a suitable take off run have been available outside the stadium?
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 10:44
  #519 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mitchaa

Vortex ring wouldn't cause that effect, it would just simply plummet.
VR may not cause that effect, but if in VR with no TR drive I'm sure it would rotate. I should think this incident could well have entered VR on the way down without tail rotor drive. It had a high ROD and drifted down wind. We don't know about the power setting yet...
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 10:58
  #520 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
Simple question for my betters:

Would a lift into a low hover transitioning into a more 'horizontal' take off be inherently safer than a departure like this one? (Given a suitable obstacle free 'runway'/take off path....)

And would a suitable take off run have been available outside the stadium?
What do you mean by "inherently safer"? If the t/r drive was faulty (if that is what caused this, hopefully initial findings will soon be made public) the accident might have occurred at a slightly different time but would possibly have put the aircraft down in a less fortunate place for those on the ground. Helicopters are designed to operate vertically, btw! The departure flown appears to have followed a certified Category A / Class 1 profile so it should have been as safe as any other.
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