Helicopter down outside Leicester City Football Club
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My flying career included virtually no experience of helicopters. I have followed this thread from the beginning. I cannot remember in the various lists of possible causes any suggestion of deliberate criminal action. Presumably, while the thought may not occur to Ppruners, there is an automatic forensic angle to the AAIB investigations.
Anyway, what strikes me unusual is the puff of smoke from the engine as the rotor starts to turn....and vertical climb performance seems to deteriorate just before directional control is lost. Uncontained engine failure that severs the TR drive shaft?
Avoid imitations
There were remarks from a Bt Sport technician whom mentions he heard a definite ‘grinding’ noise - the sort you hear when accidentally selecting reverse......
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I've just watched the video - it seems that something clearly wasn't right with that tail rotor.
Anyway, scary that I was dealing with Eric professionally by e-mail not too many months ago. RIP to all.
Anyway, scary that I was dealing with Eric professionally by e-mail not too many months ago. RIP to all.
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Yes, I'm sure you're right looking at it again. But this new clip does seem to go against the reports of odd noises or that the engine 'went quiet' before impact. The engine/rotor noise seems pretty constant....
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Just had a quick scan on YouTube to find some previous AW109/AW169s departures from the stadium:
I found this one:
Although we shouldn't be making comparisons based on one video (especially as optical illusions could have their part too), the accident video shows the helicopter hovering for considerabably longer than the video above and it looks higher too.
Purely a very, very, very brief observation.
I found this one:
Although we shouldn't be making comparisons based on one video (especially as optical illusions could have their part too), the accident video shows the helicopter hovering for considerabably longer than the video above and it looks higher too.
Purely a very, very, very brief observation.
Last edited by tomahawk98; 30th Oct 2018 at 20:42. Reason: Added AW169 (accident a/c)
As we reach the end of day three of the AAIB investigation, the fact their are no ADs and the aircraft type has not been grounded suggests the following.
(a) There is no reason to suspect that the aircraft was in anyway defective.
(b) The primary causal factor is a result of the aircraft sustaining damage during flight as a result with contact with a structure or other object.
(c) If not (b) then due to the handling of the aircraft by the pilot in command, pax or both, either in error or intentionally.
(a) There is no reason to suspect that the aircraft was in anyway defective.
(b) The primary causal factor is a result of the aircraft sustaining damage during flight as a result with contact with a structure or other object.
(c) If not (b) then due to the handling of the aircraft by the pilot in command, pax or both, either in error or intentionally.
We for sure do not know a, but one can guess at anything. For b, primary causal factor is TBD. C. Maybe, and maybe not, but Where Are You Getting Intentionally From? That, sir (or madam) is utterly Irresponsible.
Dear members of the media who may wander by here, none of that which anchor posted is supported by information, given the lack of same.
Anchor: you are jumping the gun a bit there. I'd recommend dropping the short attention span act and waiting for the first (of many) reports. They'll be arriving in due course. Whether or not your guesses are close, or far, from the actuality will in time be shown.
Regarding your idea of hitting something on the way in: what evidence are you pointing to that prompted that speculation?
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 30th Oct 2018 at 21:34.
That is an irresponsible thing to post.
We for sure do not know a, but one can guess at anything. For b, primary causal factor is TBD. C. Maybe, but Where Are You Getting Intentionally From?
Irresponsible.
Dear members of the media who may wander by here, none of that which anchor posted is supported by information, given the lack of same.
Anchor: you are jumping the gun a bit there. I'd recommend dropping the short attention span act and waiting for the first (of many) reports. They'll be arriving in due course.
We for sure do not know a, but one can guess at anything. For b, primary causal factor is TBD. C. Maybe, but Where Are You Getting Intentionally From?
Irresponsible.
Dear members of the media who may wander by here, none of that which anchor posted is supported by information, given the lack of same.
Anchor: you are jumping the gun a bit there. I'd recommend dropping the short attention span act and waiting for the first (of many) reports. They'll be arriving in due course.
What got me to respond was the insinuation of intentionality. I do not feel that such ought to be left unchallenged. That, and me being aware of who may scan this site for tidbits to throw into a news story.
If you're so upset about musings by others, leave the thread and don't come back. clearly you're drawn here for a reason though....is it to try and start fights?
The accident investigators aren't special by any means either. they cast a wide net, rule out things as they go along in a structured way. Nothing different going on here at all except it's not so structured. They just put it onto a nice dossier in the end and publish it.
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Question from a PPL(H). Would autopilot ever be engaged on this sort of departure? At the top of the reverse climb? If there's a malfunction, does the computer compensate? How quickly can you disengage? Would it be used to allow the night blindness to settle having climbed out of a bowl lit for TV cameras into a night sky? It doesn't look sadly as there was ANY time to do anything but still interested to know the procedure for such eventualities.
As crab said, the pilot manages manually in attitude mode the Cat A take-off till the limits (height and IAS) to engage the modes are reached.
Anyway if you find yourself very early in deep disorientation troubles, WLVL is an attitude function that will level your wings and bring your pitch 6 degrees up.
Despite a couple of videos showing some aspects of the event pretty clearly, we still have people floating conjectures at odds with observable fact, such as fictitious collision with the stadium structure. If they haven't looked at the video themselves, they could at least believe those who have.
Possible pilot disorientation (nose up, black sky), then over-pitching?
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I have to agree with a quote from the Sun article.
I have a sequence of photos taken by me of a recent departure of this helicopter flown by the same crew.
The photos show the helicopter on the ground in the centre circle. Once the passengers have boarded the aircraft enters a low hover and turns 180 degrees, it then moves forward to the 18 yard line in a forward hover then moves backwards and upwards until it clears the stadium roof then transitions forward while climbing and off it goes.
However the departure shown in the Sun video is totally different to this, it seems to climb to a much greater height way above the stadium roof before making a turn.
This is purely my observation and the different departure technique may be for various operational reasons not to mention the wind direction but having seen this helicopter take off from the pitch on many occasions, I have never seen this departure technique used before from this location.
I have a sequence of photos taken by me of a recent departure of this helicopter flown by the same crew.
The photos show the helicopter on the ground in the centre circle. Once the passengers have boarded the aircraft enters a low hover and turns 180 degrees, it then moves forward to the 18 yard line in a forward hover then moves backwards and upwards until it clears the stadium roof then transitions forward while climbing and off it goes.
However the departure shown in the Sun video is totally different to this, it seems to climb to a much greater height way above the stadium roof before making a turn.
This is purely my observation and the different departure technique may be for various operational reasons not to mention the wind direction but having seen this helicopter take off from the pitch on many occasions, I have never seen this departure technique used before from this location.
As Malabo said this was a well flown departure all the way and one which I would expect from a professional pilot with experience. On this type of departure profile (confined area) flown from the RH seat you would yaw the a/c left to keep visual with the departure and possibly reject point in your chin bubble window. At TDP you would then yaw back to the right (30°) or so to straighten up. That's the procedure and that's what it looked like to me.
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Thai opponents and a recent claim in the courts.
While reading the various press details about business opponents in Thailand, it reminded me of a crash in 2004 where a wealthy buisnessman with Russian connections died after the A109 he was in burst into flames and crashed while approaching Bournemouth Airport in 2004. Even the local MP was sceptical about the crash findings at the time.
The coroner confirmed that he was aware of the death threats against the businessman Mr Curtis who was the CEO of Menatep which was owned by the Russian oil company Yukos. Mr Curtis died along with his pilot.
The coroner stated at the time - "that it had all the ingredients of an espionage thriller!” There was a mention of a Russian connection at the time of the crash.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...icopter_crash/
Re the press reports about the Thai businessman having opponents in Thailand. I noted in the article shown below, it reveals that last month a Thai court threw out a $430 million claim by the Airports of Thailand (AOT) regarding unpaid revenues by the Thai company King Power.
With the large amounts of involved, and the further mentions of opponents in Thailand, I wondered if anyone had a grudge against the chairman or his family?
https://www.today.ng/news/world/thai...y-owner-154035
More on the recent Thai court case.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/thailands...l?guccounter=1
Quote: "The license was secured from the state-owned Airports of Thailand (AOT) in 2006, after years of lobbying.
It gifts King Power the captive market of the near 40 million people expected to visit the country this year, many of whom trawl through its duty-free stores at Thailand's international airports or downtown mega-malls in Bangkok and Pattaya. Last month a court rejected an attempt to sue King Power for hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid revenue to AoT.
That case was a rare pot shot by King Power's enemies. But without the shield provided by Vichai, the family could be vulnerable to avaricious rivals and moves to break up their monopoly.
"King Power's most important business is based on a monopolistic concessionary right granted by the government," explained Pavida Pananond, an academic at Thammasat Business School told AFP.
"That suggests the political nature of the business and Khun (honorific) Vichai's political and business clout.”
Whether his successors "move away from the 'know-who' to the 'know-how'" of the business will define how they parry potential competition, she said."
Other commentators have also discussed the Thai opponents, and the vast amounts of money involved.
https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordp...ag/king-power/
Maybe one for the intelligence services, as the pilot was very experienced, and the aircraft was only two years old..
The coroner confirmed that he was aware of the death threats against the businessman Mr Curtis who was the CEO of Menatep which was owned by the Russian oil company Yukos. Mr Curtis died along with his pilot.
The coroner stated at the time - "that it had all the ingredients of an espionage thriller!” There was a mention of a Russian connection at the time of the crash.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...icopter_crash/
Re the press reports about the Thai businessman having opponents in Thailand. I noted in the article shown below, it reveals that last month a Thai court threw out a $430 million claim by the Airports of Thailand (AOT) regarding unpaid revenues by the Thai company King Power.
With the large amounts of involved, and the further mentions of opponents in Thailand, I wondered if anyone had a grudge against the chairman or his family?
https://www.today.ng/news/world/thai...y-owner-154035
More on the recent Thai court case.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/thailands...l?guccounter=1
Quote: "The license was secured from the state-owned Airports of Thailand (AOT) in 2006, after years of lobbying.
It gifts King Power the captive market of the near 40 million people expected to visit the country this year, many of whom trawl through its duty-free stores at Thailand's international airports or downtown mega-malls in Bangkok and Pattaya. Last month a court rejected an attempt to sue King Power for hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid revenue to AoT.
That case was a rare pot shot by King Power's enemies. But without the shield provided by Vichai, the family could be vulnerable to avaricious rivals and moves to break up their monopoly.
"King Power's most important business is based on a monopolistic concessionary right granted by the government," explained Pavida Pananond, an academic at Thammasat Business School told AFP.
"That suggests the political nature of the business and Khun (honorific) Vichai's political and business clout.”
Whether his successors "move away from the 'know-who' to the 'know-how'" of the business will define how they parry potential competition, she said."
Other commentators have also discussed the Thai opponents, and the vast amounts of money involved.
https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordp...ag/king-power/
Maybe one for the intelligence services, as the pilot was very experienced, and the aircraft was only two years old..