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Eurocopter crash Grand Canyon Feb 2018

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Eurocopter crash Grand Canyon Feb 2018

Old 27th Aug 2018, 20:57
  #21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
There is no automatic connexion between a heavy landing and the aircraft being engulfed in flames within 2 seconds. I would say, in the vast majority of heavy landing the aircraft doesn't catch fire at all.
Yes that is true, I am just a PPL /ATCO so I do not have any significant experience of helicopter operations but what I actually said was "a heavy landing which ruptures the fuel tank" In the information that I have found this situation has a high risk of engulfing fire.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 00:02
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Oh right, so you did....sorry about that. Yes true, if the fuel tank is compromised you're at the mercy of the fuel coming into contact with an ignition source. Fuel tanks shouldn't be compromised in mishaps that aren't even heavy enough to compromise the people on board. Warning signs are unlikely to have any affect on the outcome however, or defer liability away from anywhere where liability might be due.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 15:08
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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The twin start had the bladder tanks but wasn't really popular back then to the point where EC did not see a business case going forward with the singles.

And yes, a tank that actually demonstrated crashworthy instead of "crash resistant" actually cost that much. If you want to be safe, pay the price.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 15:25
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...been-prevented
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 19:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Until it is mandatory for crash resistant fuel tanks to be installed on all aircraft, operators and manufacturers will choose the cheaper option.

My personal view is that if they can’t afford to do it safely, they can’t afford to do it at all.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 13:10
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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No one wants to see anyone hurt, ideally we would have no accidents.
But unfortunately we try to reduce accidents in aviation, each helicopter goes through certification process to try an iron out as many problems as they can, but some choices are always a compromise.
Plus owners when purchasing helicopters are given so many options, basically unless it is forced on operators/owners some things just don't happen until there is an incident/accident.
It's the same in all businesses.
Merry Christmas to all and fly safe.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 21:38
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Some poor journalism there, I think. Having crashworthy fuel tanks would not have prevented the accident. It may have made it survivable, but it wouldn't have prevented it.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 23:07
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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All ‘accidents’ are preventable.

Having been involved in helicopter aviation for 27 years of my working life I have never read a report of an accident that could not have been avoided.
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 16:44
  #29 (permalink)  
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I see that the inquest has opened into the accident at the Grand Canyon and has thrown up many issues, some of which are reported in the Times today. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...9115050ec9daab
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 22:25
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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So: imagine you are on vacay at the Grand Canyon, you want to go for a Helicopter ride. Option a) you don't go because you have heard of the fuel cell issue.
b) heard of the fuel cell issue, have the option to go with operator xyz who has fuel cell installed and is $100 bucks more a ride than Operator abc who hasn't. go with cheaper? if you can go in a BH407, would you know there is a soft fuel cell in it? (can still rupture!!!)
c) you have heard that 100 people go on that ride every day, no problem, just go.
The fuel cell would only be installed if the Insurance will give a significant reduction on the install., I think.
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Old 20th Nov 2021, 02:39
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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This accident happen in the US with a US registered helicopter and company. Why is the inquest happening in the UK?
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Old 20th Nov 2021, 11:05
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bksmithca View Post
This accident happen in the US with a US registered helicopter and company. Why is the inquest happening in the UK?
The victims were British
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 06:59
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 63000 Triple Zilch View Post
I see that the inquest has opened into the accident at the Grand Canyon and has thrown up many issues, some of which are reported in the Times today. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...9115050ec9daab
Actually nothing new that I can see “thrown up” there.

Everything of relevance to this incident has been discussed in detail in this PPRuNe thread over 163 posts:

EC 130 down at the Grand Canyon
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 17:11
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The Coroner has issued a prevention of future deaths report addressed to the CAA:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._Published.pdf

I'm sure it's well meant and perhaps provides some comfort for the relatives of the deceased but it's a matter of international regulation; I cannot see how the CAA can meaningfully respond.

As a follower of the aviation scene for forty years but with professional roots elsewhere I don't feel qualified to express an opinion of crash resistant fuel systems but surely mandating them going forward is going to be a battle. Is retro fitting to existing aircraft even technically feasible?

It's also odd that he published version of the report has had the aircraft type excised. Why? I mean it's reported by the press, in the NTSB report etc etc. It's limited to a choice of two from an non - excised comment later in the report.
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 17:17
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbanda View Post
Is retro fitting to existing aircraft even technically feasible?
Yes, you can buy the kit and retrofit the aircraft. The operator in this accident has already updated their whole fleet. The USFS has just mandated that for all future contracts utilizing the AS350 series helicopters that crash resistant fuel tanks be required.
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 18:25
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by comcat View Post
So: imagine you are on vacay at the Grand Canyon, you want to go for a Helicopter ride. Option a) you don't go because you have heard of the fuel cell issue.
b) heard of the fuel cell issue, have the option to go with operator xyz who has fuel cell installed and is $100 bucks more a ride than Operator abc who hasn't. go with cheaper? if you can go in a BH407, would you know there is a soft fuel cell in it? (can still rupture!!!)
c) you have heard that 100 people go on that ride every day, no problem, just go.
The fuel cell would only be installed if the Insurance will give a significant reduction on the install., I think.
I'm guessing 99% of vacationers at the Grand Canyon are only vaguely aware that helicopters have fuel tanks, and 99.99% have never heard of the fuel cell issues.
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 23:56
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tango and Cash View Post
I'm guessing 99% of vacationers at the Grand Canyon are only vaguely aware that helicopters have fuel tanks, and 99.99% have never heard of the fuel cell issues.
I flew in the tour industry in Hawaii for 7 years. My wife at the time worked in the office of another company---this company had an accident killing 6 people and would still tell tourists they had a 100% safety record----most people never even check. All they had to do was look at the news paper, even the day after the accident, they were telling people it was a different company......
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 02:20
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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most people never even check
They wouldn't know where to go to check for factual information, I can only think of one web site that would possibly/maybe provide the information.
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 05:43
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
They wouldn't know where to go to check for factual information, I can only think of one web site that would possibly/maybe provide the information.
Me, too.
google.com
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 16:11
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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FAA SAIB for crashworthy fuel tanks

The FAA has published an SAIB with a link to a list of approved crashworthy fuel system designs.

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/0/8997c0a7f5f7a5a6862584c70076cefa/$FILE/SW-17-31R2.pdf
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