Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Another rotor break off in flight

Wikiposts
Search
Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Another rotor break off in flight

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 18th Jul 2018, 21:38
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Iceland
Age: 58
Posts: 814
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Another rotor break off in flight


Seems that this was in Korea. What type helicopter is that?
Aesir is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 21:45
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Is that a Surion? Puma gearbox...?��
Nige321 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 21:45
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 59
Posts: 47
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
KAI Surion

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KUH-1_Surion
krohmie is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 21:45
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,079
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Looks like a...

KAI KUH-1 Surion

"As the prime sub-contractor, Eurocopter has provided technical assistance in part for developing the power transmission, main gearbox, boom and tail gearboxes, automatic flight control system and rotor mast."
Just saying...

Regards.
Aser
Aser is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 22:51
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On land
Posts: 244
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
That video is depressingly familiar.
Nescafe is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 23:29
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 75
Posts: 18,285
Received 500 Likes on 208 Posts
Related development......332. Per that amazingly always accurate source....Wikipedia.

Sound familiar?
SASless is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 00:09
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 98
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
MUH-1 Marineon, a Surion variant.
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 00:18
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Thats the mast snapping/separating at the head, rather than a gearbox internal failure ?
peterperfect is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 00:24
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On land
Posts: 244
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
If you slow the video right down at the 16/17 second mark, it actually looks like a blade lets go at the 12o’clock position, and then the head detached as a result of the induced imbalance.


Nescafe is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 01:51
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 66
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
If you try to slow the video, or advance slowly, it seems as the coning angle is all over the place on takeoff. First it may appear normal, but seems to vary, then right around 9 seconds, when just over the last building, you can see the rotor tilt left, to the camera, then back forward. Then the cone angle drops, and raises again, before the rotor drops a lot around 10 seconds, one frame seems like blades are crowded in the front, spreads out flat again and one blade departs. The two other puma departures had intact heads and blades. I would not rule out a gearbox seizure as some have speculated, but probably not my first guess. But since this event was takeoff rather than cruise, all control positions and airflow vastly different, so the subsequent chain events could be different. Still, usually rotor heads and the blade roots tend to stay grouped, even after powered impact. This blade is missing at the head altogether, so I would suspect a blade attachment, or at least a blade control mechanism that could send this to extreme pitch, that would produce an extremely high load in the flatwise direction rather than chordwise, before separation. Who has graphics of rotor/ control system? Assume they are same as the AS332.
OnePerRev is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 02:30
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Posts: 98
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by OnePerRev
If you try to slow the video, or advance slowly, it seems as the coning angle is all over the place on takeoff. First it may appear normal, but seems to vary, then right around 9 seconds, when just over the last building, you can see the rotor tilt left, to the camera, then back forward. Then the cone angle drops, and raises again, before the rotor drops a lot around 10 seconds, one frame seems like blades are crowded in the front, spreads out flat again and one blade departs.
Except for the blade departure, clear in a 0.25x reproduction, I really need to check my glasses or get a bigger screen.

Last edited by Jimmy.; 19th Jul 2018 at 02:31. Reason: Typo
Jimmy. is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:01
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: All over the place
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
rotor-rooter is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 04:55
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nz
Age: 48
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Looks like leading edge pitch control horns. If the mast or transmission let go, the blade roots would rise up while the pitch links remain at the same point.
This would produce a brief period of low or even negative pitch. Kind of matches the footage at the 10 sec mark when the coning angle of the rotor disk goes negative.
I think the missing red blade flapped down enough to contact the fuselage and sheared off at the hub.
Harrynz is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 05:58
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,245
Received 330 Likes on 183 Posts
It seems it was on a test flight after “major repairs”. I assume that means Heavy Maintdnance.
212man is online now  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:17
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Terminal 5
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
MGB - same as 225

The Surion fleet has only recently returned to flight following a prolonged grounding due to the Norwegian 225 accident. They share a common MGB. This is terrible news.
RIP to those departed.
Sanus is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 10:05
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To me it looks that the rotorhead shears off after one of the remaining blades hits the blade that departed. So more a „sudden stoppage“ failure. What do you think?
evil7 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 11:07
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lost, but often Indonesia
Posts: 652
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There was a big change in tail rotor rpm also. I'm going cross-eyed trying to tell if it was immediately before or simultaneous with the main rotor breakup/ separation.
Looks like first a rotor blade took out the windscreen with a simultaneous drop in TR rpm, then rapidly followed by main rotor separation.

Last edited by Octane; 19th Jul 2018 at 11:21.
Octane is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 11:53
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: BRS/GVA
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The cone angle definitely goes very suddenly negative just before the break up, for me thats the cause. So perhaps a collective control link problem?
hoss183 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 13:44
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: DDA
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have NEVER seen a MR Mast shear off like that!!! I also see a very abrupt change in RPM at 17 sec.

Last edited by aheoe26104; 19th Jul 2018 at 13:56.
aheoe26104 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 14:30
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 75
Posts: 18,285
Received 500 Likes on 208 Posts
While you Video Geeks are examining the video....consider the actions of the entire rotor system immediately prior to the apparent separation of the one blade from the Rotor Head if you will.

I am wondering how the Rotor System would react to a sudden stoppage of the MGB particularly in the way each Blade would react both individually and as an attached part of the whole Rotor Head.

If the MGB seized and the Mast sheared off.....that would also shear the Pitch Change Links I am thinking.

As that happens very quickly....the effect on the Rotor Blade movements would also be very rapid and should (I am guessing) transmit a somewhat common reaction to all of the Blades.

Meaning to me....the Rotor Head would act more or less in a common manner and not shed individual blades.

If that Rotor Head moved such that a single blade made contact with a strong object (say the fuselage) then I can see a single blade being lost from the Head.

Do you see the whole Rotor Head Tip Path Plane tilting in such a manner or are we seeing a single blade launching off for points unknown while the rest of the blades act in a common manner?
SASless is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.