AS 350: "Hold my beer son and watch this!"
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I am now starting to ask why this guy is defended? Look up the definition for aerobatic flight in your Regulations and stop being silly about this stunt.. It is not a normal manouvre in any book and it is not legal ito the flight manual So what is the point in defending this? What is the motivation Interesting
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
So even if we can agree it wasn't actually aerobatic flight, even if we can agree it was within the aircraft operating limits, and even if we can agree it was smoothly executed, that still leaves the fact that the approach to the cliff and the subsequent maneuvering left little or no options for an escape path should anything decide to fail at that point. That's obviously fine for this pilot, but I prefer to have somewhere else to go on the day, rather than straight to the fireball.
The manoeuvre was operationally inefficient and un-neccessary, I think we can all agree with that.
As for where it happened. I note in the video the cars are driving on the right side of the road. Apart from that, not much else to go by.
As for where it happened. I note in the video the cars are driving on the right side of the road. Apart from that, not much else to go by.
BhutanH130 - it very much depends on your perspective as to how you view this 'stunt' - I don't know your experience or age but I am looking at it from a career of 35 years of military flying that includes a great deal of low flying, fighter evasion, air combat manoeuvring and other similar disciplines so in that context a simple wingover really isn't a big deal.
If all you do is fly straight and level from A to B with pax at a safe height then it probably looks horrendous and seems the most heinous crime to fly such a manoeuvre.
Apart from anything else - it looks like fun - because it is - something that seems to be progressively legislated out of aviation.
If all you do is fly straight and level from A to B with pax at a safe height then it probably looks horrendous and seems the most heinous crime to fly such a manoeuvre.
Apart from anything else - it looks like fun - because it is - something that seems to be progressively legislated out of aviation.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
BhutanH130 - it very much depends on your perspective as to how you view this 'stunt' - I don't know your experience or age but I am looking at it from a career of 35 years of military flying that includes a great deal of low flying, fighter evasion, air combat manoeuvring and other similar disciplines so in that context a simple wingover really isn't a big deal.
If all you do is fly straight and level from A to B with pax at a safe height then it probably looks horrendous and seems the most heinous crime to fly such a manoeuvre.
Apart from anything else - it looks like fun - because it is - something that seems to be progressively legislated out of aviation.
If all you do is fly straight and level from A to B with pax at a safe height then it probably looks horrendous and seems the most heinous crime to fly such a manoeuvre.
Apart from anything else - it looks like fun - because it is - something that seems to be progressively legislated out of aviation.
With 35 years of military experience, one would expect a bit more maturity. If you are looking for fun, do it in your own time on your own machine and one that will not penalise later passengers or crew for the fun you had. You are wrong, you can have fun in aviation, but commercial aviation is not first supposed to be fun. It is firstly supposed to be safe. You more than most should know that rules and regulations are written in blood.
So even if we can agree it wasn't actually aerobatic flight...
even if we can agree it was within the aircraft operating limits
it looks like fun - because it is - something that seems to be progressively legislated out of aviation.
@CRAB
This is not the military. You do not know, how many times that guy has already f**** up the same oh so fun maneuver, because he is self trained. I can only hope, the mechanics know about this pilot and his hobby and do very careful preflights.
Last edited by Rotorbee; 4th Jul 2018 at 11:18. Reason: missunderstanding
Some people on very high horses here, happy to criticise the pilot in the video despite not knowing who he is, his level of skill, his training, the aircraft configuration or pretty much anything.
Also on the high horses are those that claim they have never done anything the infringes any rules or regulations pertaining to flying, never lifted off too heavy, never flown too fast, never dealt with an emergenmcy the way it suited them rather than following the RFM, oversped the rotor. etc etc
Bhutan - my position of maturity allows me to keep things in perspective rather than firing from the hip just because you take umbrage at what one pilot has done.
Rotorbee - as I mentioned, I have done aerobatics, quite legally in the Lynx - I don't need to do them on other aircraft.
So, get off the Daily Mail outrage bus.
Also on the high horses are those that claim they have never done anything the infringes any rules or regulations pertaining to flying, never lifted off too heavy, never flown too fast, never dealt with an emergenmcy the way it suited them rather than following the RFM, oversped the rotor. etc etc
Bhutan - my position of maturity allows me to keep things in perspective rather than firing from the hip just because you take umbrage at what one pilot has done.
Rotorbee - as I mentioned, I have done aerobatics, quite legally in the Lynx - I don't need to do them on other aircraft.
So, get off the Daily Mail outrage bus.
@Crab: We all know, what you have done as a pilot. Quite impressive certainly, (that last sentence in that other post wasn't meant to you BTW).
If you have done it legally, why do you give the impression of sanctioning the presumably not so legal way of doing things?
Outraged? Me? Just because there is another hot shot pilot who will eventually kill somebody? If he kills himself, I don't care. But he will probably transport people in a ship that was used beyond it's design limits. Right after the accident many people will call him the best pilot ever ("he was such an experienced pilot, said the widow ...") and after a few years the investigation will find, that he did so many stupid things, an accident was only a question of time. This story has repeated itself time and again, I am getting tired of them (had to read another one three days ago ... déjà vu, FI, great guy, super nice professional, hell of a pilot, rolled, spun and looped everything that had wings, killed himself and two students when the plane just could not take the beating any longer ... many knew, nobody said something due to peer pressure).
I have done things out of utter stupidity and it almost killed me as a student pilot, just because I followed the example of a more experienced pilot (he could do it, I don't). I have broken rules and got away with it, but these rules are made to protect me (well, most of them ...) and therefore for my own safety, I should do what I am told. There is still enough room for legal fun. I have started to take lessons in aerobatics (plank) and after an hour I have a rather unhealthy complexion (I still have hope it goes away one day), but what fun, and all legal.
I have decided for me to speak up, if I think people get dangerous. Which is encouraged by the authorities but frown upon by my peers.
At least I don't have anything on my conscience, if something happens.
I got pushed off the high horse quite often but have not hurt anybody in the process. Now I walk and lead the horse.
If you have done it legally, why do you give the impression of sanctioning the presumably not so legal way of doing things?
Outraged? Me? Just because there is another hot shot pilot who will eventually kill somebody? If he kills himself, I don't care. But he will probably transport people in a ship that was used beyond it's design limits. Right after the accident many people will call him the best pilot ever ("he was such an experienced pilot, said the widow ...") and after a few years the investigation will find, that he did so many stupid things, an accident was only a question of time. This story has repeated itself time and again, I am getting tired of them (had to read another one three days ago ... déjà vu, FI, great guy, super nice professional, hell of a pilot, rolled, spun and looped everything that had wings, killed himself and two students when the plane just could not take the beating any longer ... many knew, nobody said something due to peer pressure).
I have done things out of utter stupidity and it almost killed me as a student pilot, just because I followed the example of a more experienced pilot (he could do it, I don't). I have broken rules and got away with it, but these rules are made to protect me (well, most of them ...) and therefore for my own safety, I should do what I am told. There is still enough room for legal fun. I have started to take lessons in aerobatics (plank) and after an hour I have a rather unhealthy complexion (I still have hope it goes away one day), but what fun, and all legal.
I have decided for me to speak up, if I think people get dangerous. Which is encouraged by the authorities but frown upon by my peers.
At least I don't have anything on my conscience, if something happens.
I got pushed off the high horse quite often but have not hurt anybody in the process. Now I walk and lead the horse.
What's that old cliché - A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill?
You can bicker about camera angles and ability as much as you want. There is a time and a place for everything but
If you want to fly aerobatic manoeuvres then a squirrel while on the clock isn't it.
People with real skill know when to use it and don't find opportunities to demonstrate how good they are.
I would be surprised if he doesn't have a damp pair of pants seeing how much publicity this has got, though if he is South American he probably doesn't care
I am sure this chap or chapess (let's be honest it's a bloke, no woman would fly like that) is a terrific guy, well trained and very experienced but he sure doesn't seem to have great judgement, something I suspect the manufacturer, authority and (possibly) operator may agree with.
You can bicker about camera angles and ability as much as you want. There is a time and a place for everything but
If you want to fly aerobatic manoeuvres then a squirrel while on the clock isn't it.
People with real skill know when to use it and don't find opportunities to demonstrate how good they are.
I would be surprised if he doesn't have a damp pair of pants seeing how much publicity this has got, though if he is South American he probably doesn't care
I am sure this chap or chapess (let's be honest it's a bloke, no woman would fly like that) is a terrific guy, well trained and very experienced but he sure doesn't seem to have great judgement, something I suspect the manufacturer, authority and (possibly) operator may agree with.
Crab .... you seem to have changed !! Historically you have always been on the opposite side to me ... you preaching rules and caution and me a bit more gung ho !! Now even I am saying that it looks a bit much ( and yes I have done some aerobatic manoeuvres in the past ... maybe ) and you are saying yeah it’s fine ! I think if the video had been of me you would have had a different view !!!!
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Oh my. What was wrong with a constant angle approach to a confined'ish area pickup at a steady speed with an option in the event of engine failure that gave a little more time for thought. IMHO no need. I left front line military instruction in 2012, so I can only speak for then. If a crew flew like that for a routine pick up, they would be f££king grounded! The question would be "What was your imperative?" "Did it make the sortie more effective or safer?"
If not they would find my boot deep inside their arse. And thats not considering the thoughts if I owned/operated the aircraft. Bellend.
Its like the pumper slinging trees in IMC weather who was rapidly burning the aircraft life being "an amazing pilot" Loose your ego, if you need to throw it around to survive an approach to an LZ....fine, if not, stop f@cking around.
If not they would find my boot deep inside their arse. And thats not considering the thoughts if I owned/operated the aircraft. Bellend.
Its like the pumper slinging trees in IMC weather who was rapidly burning the aircraft life being "an amazing pilot" Loose your ego, if you need to throw it around to survive an approach to an LZ....fine, if not, stop f@cking around.
As the video was taken pretty close to where I am currently located I did a little bit of digging online.
It wasn't too difficult to find the folks concerned as the area looked familiar. i.e. out the front window nearly.
As it has gone viral and all over the facing book apparently the perp is being lectured as we speak.
Not the smartest thing to do but I still have the opinion that it looks worse than it is and all the BS about "stressing the aircraft" is still BS.
I am sticking to my tag.
PS if you want to know who and where you have to buy the bridge I have for sale first.
It wasn't too difficult to find the folks concerned as the area looked familiar. i.e. out the front window nearly.
As it has gone viral and all over the facing book apparently the perp is being lectured as we speak.
Not the smartest thing to do but I still have the opinion that it looks worse than it is and all the BS about "stressing the aircraft" is still BS.
I am sticking to my tag.
PS if you want to know who and where you have to buy the bridge I have for sale first.
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Well Jelly .... you taught me that manoeuvre but with the caveat ... NEVER in a teetering head and then only when no cameras around !!!!
ps . My 109 is for sale fresh out of annual and
CHEAP or exchange/swap if you have any ideas . Thanks
ps . My 109 is for sale fresh out of annual and
CHEAP or exchange/swap if you have any ideas . Thanks
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The manouevre shown in the video is one I see most weeks. My experience is the apparent severity changes significantly with where I am stood, or more normally sat.
I'm not commenting on whether the pilot was within their rights. All I'm commenting on is that judging the extremity of the manouevre (and subsequent stress on the aircraft) based on a single point of view video is not reliable.
I'm not commenting on whether the pilot was within their rights. All I'm commenting on is that judging the extremity of the manouevre (and subsequent stress on the aircraft) based on a single point of view video is not reliable.
I think we are already there with that conclusion......
all we are saying is that the particular manoeuvre was done in an inappropriate environment! ie against a cliff face with limited exit routes if it went Pete Tong .
all we are saying is that the particular manoeuvre was done in an inappropriate environment! ie against a cliff face with limited exit routes if it went Pete Tong .
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I'm glad we are.
https://www.tu.no/artikler/her-tar-d...a-basen/395742