New FAA Rule Re Harness and Open Door Flights
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Actually he is not my "Mate" as you call it. I never met him before today and his official title is "FAA Principal Operations Inspector". And the person I said he contacted back east to discuss the conversation with was the person you mentioned in your message above (Jorge Castillo). And yes I already have things underway to get in writing what I need to give to any operator that I have shoots planned with. While making sure I am safe in what I do, and legal, I also want to make sure that any operator I fly with is also legal.
Good luck with the applications, look forward to seeing many more great photos in the mag!
Understood
Ned, acknowledging that you are a professional, if the FAA signs off on your quick release, in what ever shape the release and the approval ends up in, please take my advice about the release handle location being on your harness, where you always know it is. Then you don't have to look for it, can pull it with either hand, when blinded, when doused with fuel, or otherwise disoriented. The FAA doesn't really have you best interest at heart. Just what they think is reasonable doesn't make it so. In fact, my opinion is that it is very likley you know considerably more than their inspector about what you need to do and some helicopter operations.
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Roscoe - Thats an understatement 
The reason I also bought the new harness and will get the ARS QR tether is that it then gives me two options for quick release. This one from Australia has the normal ripcord type handle which I really like. Remove velcro pull handle and its right then on my left chest so I know exactly where it is all the time. The NYC accident got me thinking a lot more about self preservation - hence lot more research and sorting out whats best for me, and for others who shoot air to air images, and there are more out there than people think.
The reason I also bought the new harness and will get the ARS QR tether is that it then gives me two options for quick release. This one from Australia has the normal ripcord type handle which I really like. Remove velcro pull handle and its right then on my left chest so I know exactly where it is all the time. The NYC accident got me thinking a lot more about self preservation - hence lot more research and sorting out whats best for me, and for others who shoot air to air images, and there are more out there than people think.
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Roscoe - Thats an understatement
The reason I also bought the new harness and will get the ARS QR tether is that it then gives me two options for quick release. This one from Australia has the normal ripcord type handle which I really like. Remove velcro pull handle and its right then on my left chest so I know exactly where it is all the time. The NYC accident got me thinking a lot more about self preservation - hence lot more research and sorting out whats best for me, and for others who shoot air to air images, and there are more out there than people think.
The reason I also bought the new harness and will get the ARS QR tether is that it then gives me two options for quick release. This one from Australia has the normal ripcord type handle which I really like. Remove velcro pull handle and its right then on my left chest so I know exactly where it is all the time. The NYC accident got me thinking a lot more about self preservation - hence lot more research and sorting out whats best for me, and for others who shoot air to air images, and there are more out there than people think.
I'm pleased to see the uptake of the CASA approved harness that we have used for so many years here in Australia, but little comment has been made on any of the current threads about where you secure the tether to the aircraft; almost as important as the rest of the deal.
Many moons ago (when Pontius was a Pilot) the helicopter of choice was a JetRanger and we secured the harness of the day to one of the pax seat belt anchors. I spent a bit of time and a lot of money having an approved anchor point made and attached to the rear bulkhead behind the pax cushion, removable for installing the cushion. It was worth the effort when a cameraman was secured to it during a wirestrike, there is little doubt that the pull on the normal seat belt anchor would not have stood up to the forces involved.
Later there came on the market a Bell part which attached to the bulkhead in the rear footwell and is 'handed', one each side for either door, to secure the cameraman's harness.
The Squirrel is now the generally used helicopter for camera work and again some regulatory oversight should come into play to ensure that any approved harness be secured to the aircraft by an anchor point stressed for lateral pull commensurate with a cameraman in any likely position during operations. Further, CASA approvals nearly always require that a harness wearer be in a seat with the normal seat belt on and harness removed from the securing point during take off and landing; this ensures that only one release is needed at any time of flight.
Points which should be added to the current emergency FAA ruling, IMO; and by any other regulatory authority controlling this sort of operation.
Many moons ago (when Pontius was a Pilot) the helicopter of choice was a JetRanger and we secured the harness of the day to one of the pax seat belt anchors. I spent a bit of time and a lot of money having an approved anchor point made and attached to the rear bulkhead behind the pax cushion, removable for installing the cushion. It was worth the effort when a cameraman was secured to it during a wirestrike, there is little doubt that the pull on the normal seat belt anchor would not have stood up to the forces involved.
Later there came on the market a Bell part which attached to the bulkhead in the rear footwell and is 'handed', one each side for either door, to secure the cameraman's harness.
The Squirrel is now the generally used helicopter for camera work and again some regulatory oversight should come into play to ensure that any approved harness be secured to the aircraft by an anchor point stressed for lateral pull commensurate with a cameraman in any likely position during operations. Further, CASA approvals nearly always require that a harness wearer be in a seat with the normal seat belt on and harness removed from the securing point during take off and landing; this ensures that only one release is needed at any time of flight.
Points which should be added to the current emergency FAA ruling, IMO; and by any other regulatory authority controlling this sort of operation.
All good points which have been previously mentioned, from my experience the seat belt attachment points are not the weak point of a squirrel, it’s the seats (pre B3), the seat belts stay intact & fastened as the seat disintegrates underneath you.
An operator I’m familiar with used to attach monkey-harnesses to removeable cargo floor tie-down rings for open door Ops. Given that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link can anyone see a potential problem here? An accident waiting to happen in my humble opinion.
Previous research I did when using the same claw tie-down rings in my BK117 showed the tie down was rated for lateral and vertical forces well beyond the weight of the cameraman and gear, but you would have to check the rating of the cargo floor of the aircraft model you are using.
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So common sense prevails. Not going to put a crimp in anyone's style except for coming up with FAA approved harnesses. Looks like the patent holders on the 3-ring release will probably be busy.
Order will not be officially published until 26 Mar:
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...ht-prohibition
Order will not be officially published until 26 Mar:
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...ht-prohibition
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Why is everybody so keen to have the photographer standing on the skids instead of having him/her properly attached to the existing and approved seat by the approved seat-belt?
A professional photographer combined with a professional pilot should be able to cope with the limitation in moving space.
Furthermore, keeping the camera inside the helicopter will allow for better exposure times and if it brakes it will be covered by insurance. A camera dropping from a helicopter obviously wasn't carried inside the helicopter thus is not covered by insurance
A professional photographer combined with a professional pilot should be able to cope with the limitation in moving space.
Furthermore, keeping the camera inside the helicopter will allow for better exposure times and if it brakes it will be covered by insurance. A camera dropping from a helicopter obviously wasn't carried inside the helicopter thus is not covered by insurance
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Roscoe - Am not talking about whats right or wrong for the general public, I am discussing what the options are for those of us who spend most of our time in various machines around the world shooting air to air images. No doubt they will come up with rules dedicated to the pax flights - me I am just making sure that what I do, and for the benefit of fellow industry photographers is right.
The issue is that the company involved in this accident put a group of Non Professionals into a professional situation in order to make money on a day when they couldn't legally fly along the river in New York. As they say Rules are made to protect the Stupid.
Roybert
The "POI" you spoke with even gave you his out:
as long as the operator is comfortable with the quick release mechanisim I am using they are ok with it.
If you want to be 100% sure your harness is good, contact all the operators you plan to use and get them to sign-off on your harness now.
Another FYI: POIs are not normally "senior" personal--those are managers. All FAA inspectors are ASIs first. When they get assigned to an operator they then become a Principal Operations, or Principal Maintenance, or Principal Avionics inspector to that operator. And some get caught up in that distinction.
wrench1 makes good points.
Most POI's are just interpreting the rules as THEY see it. They have NO legal training.
I run 2 companies in 2 different FSDO's, we have some the exact same aircraft in both. We are permitted to do things in one, but not the other due to different interpretations. These days I have pilots and aircraft on both certificates and they change their name badge for a day.
FYI---I am not talking about any safety related things here, but merely whether a pilot or mechanic needs to sign off a daily.
Until we get more guidance from the FAA and we see an approved harness, and attachment strap combination, all photographers will remain in the aircraft seat belt with doors off. We do have some aircraft with a full sliding window set up for photography.
Most POI's are just interpreting the rules as THEY see it. They have NO legal training.
I run 2 companies in 2 different FSDO's, we have some the exact same aircraft in both. We are permitted to do things in one, but not the other due to different interpretations. These days I have pilots and aircraft on both certificates and they change their name badge for a day.
FYI---I am not talking about any safety related things here, but merely whether a pilot or mechanic needs to sign off a daily.
Until we get more guidance from the FAA and we see an approved harness, and attachment strap combination, all photographers will remain in the aircraft seat belt with doors off. We do have some aircraft with a full sliding window set up for photography.
I brought this up as an example, not to fight about. Two FSDO's exact same aircraft, same flight manual, same MX manual wording--one allows the pilot, the other does not. I used this merely as a way to demonstrate to the non-US people that the FAA is NOT cut and dry.
Thread Starter
"Why is everybody so keen to have the photographer standing on the skids instead of having him/her properly attached to the existing and approved seat by the approved seat-belt?
A professional photographer combined with a professional pilot should be able to cope with the limitation in moving space."
Umm where in any of my posts have I said this, I haven't !!!. Never in any of my shoots over 25 years doing this have I ever stood out on the skids. I usually sit on the floor and you obviously have not done much air to air shoots of other helicopters if you think being stuck in a seat will allow you to get what you need.
Gordy - Fair enough on the FAA comment - point taken.
A professional photographer combined with a professional pilot should be able to cope with the limitation in moving space."
Umm where in any of my posts have I said this, I haven't !!!. Never in any of my shoots over 25 years doing this have I ever stood out on the skids. I usually sit on the floor and you obviously have not done much air to air shoots of other helicopters if you think being stuck in a seat will allow you to get what you need.
Gordy - Fair enough on the FAA comment - point taken.
I think we can all agree that this is in part a knee jerk reaction by the FAA and understandable based upon the negative press this accident is getting. Had they have been professional photographers in their own harnesses I suspect the out come "may" have been different. For one, there would have only been 2 people at most in the back---a photographer and assistant. I believe there is a way we can still operate with an equivalent level of safety assuming we do not fill up the helicopter as they did.
In the interim, the problem will be anytime an FAA inspector sees doors off, it will be "game on". Most will ramp check you and interpret the rules in the most restrictive way, rather than the other way round. So, hence my tough stance on the issue for now.
Hopefully working solutions will be available soon. HAI is forming a working group to look into these issues. As some know I am the Chairman of the HAI Tour Operator Committee, and also the Vice-Chair of TOPS, both organizations will probably have representation on the working group, along with I assume the FAA and NTSB.
In the interim, the problem will be anytime an FAA inspector sees doors off, it will be "game on". Most will ramp check you and interpret the rules in the most restrictive way, rather than the other way round. So, hence my tough stance on the issue for now.
Hopefully working solutions will be available soon. HAI is forming a working group to look into these issues. As some know I am the Chairman of the HAI Tour Operator Committee, and also the Vice-Chair of TOPS, both organizations will probably have representation on the working group, along with I assume the FAA and NTSB.
John Eacott wrote
CASA approvals nearly always require that a harness wearer be in a seat with the normal seat belt on and harness removed from the securing point during take off and landing; this ensures that only one release is needed at any time of flight.
Does this really happen ? So the pax take off with their harness unattached and then attach it before they release their seatbelt ? This seems unlikely especially if the attaching point is behind the seat ..and then who checks they have been attached properly? Or I guess the tethers are permanently fixed and you connect your harness to it during the flight .... once again how do you cope with one , of your 4 pax in the back , pulling the wrong part and not being able to re connect .
Maybe I’m missing something!!
CASA approvals nearly always require that a harness wearer be in a seat with the normal seat belt on and harness removed from the securing point during take off and landing; this ensures that only one release is needed at any time of flight.
Does this really happen ? So the pax take off with their harness unattached and then attach it before they release their seatbelt ? This seems unlikely especially if the attaching point is behind the seat ..and then who checks they have been attached properly? Or I guess the tethers are permanently fixed and you connect your harness to it during the flight .... once again how do you cope with one , of your 4 pax in the back , pulling the wrong part and not being able to re connect .
Maybe I’m missing something!!
John Eacott wrote
CASA approvals nearly always require that a harness wearer be in a seat with the normal seat belt on and harness removed from the securing point during take off and landing; this ensures that only one release is needed at any time of flight.
Does this really happen ? So the pax take off with their harness unattached and then attach it before they release their seatbelt ? This seems unlikely especially if the attaching point is behind the seat ..and then who checks they have been attached properly? Or I guess the tethers are permanently fixed and you connect your harness to it during the flight .... once again how do you cope with one , of your 4 pax in the back , pulling the wrong part and not being able to re connect .
Maybe I’m missing something!!
CASA approvals nearly always require that a harness wearer be in a seat with the normal seat belt on and harness removed from the securing point during take off and landing; this ensures that only one release is needed at any time of flight.
Does this really happen ? So the pax take off with their harness unattached and then attach it before they release their seatbelt ? This seems unlikely especially if the attaching point is behind the seat ..and then who checks they have been attached properly? Or I guess the tethers are permanently fixed and you connect your harness to it during the flight .... once again how do you cope with one , of your 4 pax in the back , pulling the wrong part and not being able to re connect .
Maybe I’m missing something!!
You are missing that I am describing what was (and may still be) the requirements for the use of harnesses for dedicated aerial work operations where the harness is being worn by a cameraman or crewman, thoroughly briefed in the use of the harness and also the attachment points on the airframe.